20. Wellness In Action | Kim At The Summit

0:09 [SPEAKER_01]: This week, Kim at the Summit Interviewed two of my favorite people this entire space. [SPEAKER_01]: Susan Farron, a first responders resiliency, and jolly wills of hummingly foundation. [SPEAKER_01]: Both of these really strong kick-ass leaders, what they did is that they saw a huge gap in disaster recovery around mental health. [SPEAKER_01]: How do you do it? [SPEAKER_01]: How do you make sure that you are being relevant? [SPEAKER_01]: How do you actually bring leaders in in a way that they won't feel like you're wasting their time? [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the big dynamics about disaster or mental health is that the people who are the leaders and it tend to be the ones who are very last to ask for help. [SPEAKER_01]: um, they feel like they need to just go to work and leave that for somebody else. [SPEAKER_01]: Susan Farron, I'm so excited for you to meet her.

0:52 [SPEAKER_01]: She is the founder and executive director of a really wonderful nonprofit called First Responders Resiliency, which is peer-to-peer mental health. [SPEAKER_01]: With so great about this, is that Sue spent 30 years being a First Responders of Paramedic, and then she started running into a lot of the same um, physical and emotional issues that we see with a lot of our first responders that we depend on so much to come running in our worst moments. [SPEAKER_01]: But somebody needs to come running for them and that person has been so fair and I think you're going to really enjoy listening to the program that she has created over the last nine years. [SPEAKER_01]: The other person's jolly wills who is the founder of the Hummingly Foundation. [SPEAKER_01]: I made jolly about four years ago during the martial fire in Boulder, Colorado.

1:33 [SPEAKER_01]: We were helping them recover as time went on and she at the time was living in Denver. [SPEAKER_01]: She's from the New Zealand though. [SPEAKER_01]: and lost her home in the Christchurch, New Zealand earthquake of 2011. [SPEAKER_01]: Julie is a remarkable, um, what I want to call her. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess she's like a neuroscientist. [SPEAKER_01]: And she developed this very cool program. [SPEAKER_01]: It's incredibly practical. [SPEAKER_01]: It uses cards. [SPEAKER_01]: And for leaders like me who need something that's really practical to move forward, I find that her program is so effective and just very, very thoughtful about how people and leaders walk through disasters and what they really need in order to come out the other side of it having some form of mental health.

2:15 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think you're really going to enjoy this episode of Kim at the Summit with Sue Farron and Joly Willes. [SPEAKER_04]: Following a natural disaster, you can count on Kaiser Permanente to act quickly. [SPEAKER_04]: Kaiser Permanente consistently shows up to provide volunteer resources, medical care, and supplies to support centers. [SPEAKER_04]: The healthcare company also dominates meaningful funding to organizations that provide direct relief to impacted communities and first responders. [SPEAKER_04]: That's all part of the Kaiser Permanente mission. [SPEAKER_04]: Learn more at kp.org forward slash community.

2:55 [SPEAKER_04]: All right, here we are, in the yellow booth, the How to Disaster Podcast booth at the Wildfire Leadership Summit Second Day. [SPEAKER_04]: And I am excited because I am joined. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, part of my life is having a podcast called LA Rising Stories of Healing, Hope, and Hope born from my experiences with the Pal Sates Fire. [SPEAKER_04]: But, look who my guest is today. [SPEAKER_04]: She's on a panel this afternoon called The Long Road Within Trauma Resilience and The Work of Healing. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm joined by Susan Farron, founder and executive director of First Responders Resilience. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, come Susan, thank you.

3:36 [SPEAKER_04]: Thanks so much for letting me be here with you. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh my God, we're so excited. [SPEAKER_04]: Listen. [SPEAKER_04]: Tell me why you would know anything about first responders resilience. [SPEAKER_02]: Ah, well, because I was one that makes it the easiest. [SPEAKER_02]: I started here. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a born and raised snow McCowny girl. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yep, grew up on a ranch here and was on the ambulances in Santa Rosa by the time I was 18. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: So spent 30 years in the industry working as a paramedic. [SPEAKER_02]: and as a clinical manager doing medical investigations for fire departments and private companies and was married to a firefighter for 23 years and had five children and have spent my entire adult life serving in the industry.

4:18 [SPEAKER_04]: Wow and I hear that you are active, the tub's fire, the Kincaid fire is that right? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, so what had happened is actually the year before the Tubbs fire I got sick with kidney cancer. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man. [SPEAKER_02]: And they initially had given me a terminal diagnosis. [SPEAKER_02]: Had done a major surgery on me, removed a portion of my kidney, discovered that I was not terminal. [SPEAKER_02]: So I had a stay of execution. [SPEAKER_02]: And after my surgery, one of the doctors made a comment about seeing a lot of organ cancer and first responders. [SPEAKER_02]: Uh-oh. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what led me to start this organization. [SPEAKER_02]: So when it came to the tub's fire, I'd actually sold my house three weeks before the tub's fire to start this organization and when the fire hit, obviously all of us were being evacuated.

5:01 [SPEAKER_02]: I was doing actually material triage at the vet center. [SPEAKER_02]: So I was triaging all the supplies that were coming in for the survivors and the people who'd lost their homes. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: So I spent the first 11 days after the fire helping out at the vet center. [SPEAKER_02]: How was it working as a paramedic guy? [SPEAKER_02]: Was triaging equipment and supplies? [SPEAKER_03]: What's the vet center for the vet center in Santa Rosa? [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, where we brought everybody who lost their homes so that we could get them toiletries, clothing, shoes, a place to go. [SPEAKER_04]: So picking up on what you said about the medical team telling you that [SPEAKER_04]: He's seen a lot of kidney cancer and first responders.

5:42 [SPEAKER_04]: What's the actual physical link between chronic occupational stress and disease that most first responders are never told? [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great question. [SPEAKER_02]: It's really because of the impact the work is going to have on our nervous system. [SPEAKER_02]: And so oftentimes what they do in our industry is they train you to do the job so you can protect other people's lives and property. [SPEAKER_02]: But they don't teach you anything about what's about to happen to your own body. [SPEAKER_02]: And so we wait until people are damaged psychologically before we start offering them help. [SPEAKER_02]: And my philosophy, after seeing many of my partners succumb to the stress, [SPEAKER_02]: addiction, suicide, divorce, organ cancer, I realized if you get ahead of what's happening to these folks and train them how to regulate their nervous systems, what things they're putting in their bodies, their increasing inflammation, increasing risk, what things that they're doing thinking, how they're managing their lives as a whole.

6:40 [SPEAKER_02]: You can help change the direction of their lives if they know in advance. [SPEAKER_02]: So I started a proactive before they got sick behavioral wellness program that I now refer to as a cognitive performance program because I'm not helping people behave well. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm helping people perform better. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow! [SPEAKER_04]: And so many people don't understand that, you know, we always talk about the old adage and ounce of prevention, right? [SPEAKER_04]: And you know, they say that investing in preparedness for every dollar spent, you save $13 in buildback costs. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Now let's apply that to the medical world. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

7:20 [SPEAKER_04]: So tell me, [SPEAKER_04]: When you found this trauma, when say someone, first of all, as PTSD or kidney cancer or depression or whatever, you say it's contagious inside a house. [SPEAKER_04]: That's right. [SPEAKER_04]: Tell me why, isn't it? [SPEAKER_02]: Because everybody runs at some kind of a frequency at the risk of sounding a little bit on the edge, we all have an energy that we produce. [SPEAKER_02]: And when a first responder does this work, it becomes business as usual when we are exposed to fatal accidents, car crashes, felony pursuits on the freeway for alarm fires. [SPEAKER_02]: This is regular. [SPEAKER_02]: So when we walk in the door and our spouse says, how was your shift?

8:02 [SPEAKER_02]: Most of us will respond with the four letter F word fine. [SPEAKER_02]: And the family knows you're not fine because of the way you feel when you walk in the door. [SPEAKER_02]: And then we hug our loved ones, we hold our children, and they're picking up on this energy that's coming from us. [SPEAKER_02]: And they're now confused because this doesn't make sense. [SPEAKER_02]: You're telling me you're fine, but everything about the way that you feel and you're acting tells me that you aren't. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a confusing environment for children. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a disheartening environment for spouses many times. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, all the more reason to be prepared, so the ripple effect doesn't affect everyone.

8:42 [SPEAKER_04]: Now, is there something psychologically different about responding to a wildfire that burns for days or weeks compared to that acute single incident emergency that most paramedics respond to? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's true for the firefighters and for the police officers, because they were all just as speaking from the tub's fire perspective, which was 2017? [SPEAKER_02]: 2017. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, we had the campfire, the paradise fire, the line of fire, all the fire and police officers, paramedics, they're now inundated on these lines, right? [SPEAKER_02]: We're controlling traffic coming in and out with a hybrid patrol and law enforcement. [SPEAKER_02]: We've got people trying to protect properties and buildings with firefighters and, of course, the medical aids and transportation needs from the paramedics.

9:30 [SPEAKER_02]: When you're a first responder and you start running these really early calls in your career, it's like driving a Lamborghini down the freeway at 180 miles an hour. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's intoxicating. [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. [SPEAKER_02]: But after you've been doing it for a while and if you've been on a strike team or you've been gone for two weeks, you know, no matter how hard you push that pedal, you're only ever going to get to 110. [SPEAKER_02]: And this becomes our hover mode, as I call it, and that hover mode is so much higher than most people spend their lives. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the civilian population, but I like to say that [SPEAKER_02]: when you're doing 110 in your hover mode as a first responder and you get on the freeway behind a civilian it's like they're doing 20 in the fast lane you're so frustrated and so impatient because your mind and your nervous system are hovering at this elevated rate and so what I teach them you know because I'm a first responder I say all of our instructors are first responders we train them in this is what's happening to you this is why it feels that way and they say [SPEAKER_02]: Oh wait, you know, yes, we've lived it in so much and let us show you how to get back to your normal.

10:35 [SPEAKER_02]: You may never be civilian normal, but we can get you out of 110. [SPEAKER_02]: I can take you out of hover mode long enough to help you heal. [SPEAKER_04]: How are you getting people to believe you and to buy into your training for their departments? [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's because it's word of mouth. [SPEAKER_02]: Like we didn't people would ask me which are marketing program? [SPEAKER_02]: And I'd say, oh, I don't have one. [SPEAKER_02]: It's word of mouth. [SPEAKER_02]: We do get interviewed by the press. [SPEAKER_02]: We do get [SPEAKER_02]: We've got a humanitarian award from Lee Steinberg at the NFL Super Bowl party this year, so we've had some big things happen for us, but mostly it's one first responder telling another first responder. [SPEAKER_02]: When we walk in, here's what we don't do.

11:17 [SPEAKER_02]: We don't make them break into small groups and talk about their pain. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't make them cry. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't rip the wound open. [SPEAKER_02]: We just sit down and say, hey, you're not broken, your nervous system is fried, we're going to show you how to get a hold of that. [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to buy anything, you don't have to go anywhere. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to train you how to do it right at home. [SPEAKER_02]: And also, they have agency over their lives again, and for the first time, sometimes in years, they feel like I'm alive. [SPEAKER_02]: I have control over my life. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm actually managing what's happening inside of me. [SPEAKER_04]: You know, we had such a heatwave in LA, a week and a half ago, and I was like, Dear God, don't let there be a fire, because these poor guys that are out there in the plastic, I could be able to walk from my car to the house, and I just think what we put them through, and I tell the story of this...

12:07 [SPEAKER_04]: Flyer that broke out in the palisades in the normal years without fire herkay when a home let's go We didn't know just kept starting the fire again You put it off. [SPEAKER_04]: It was a hike trail. [SPEAKER_04]: We could see it. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, they put it out It would come back. [SPEAKER_04]: They put it out. [SPEAKER_04]: It would come back well like what and here some guy was restarting So they found him some real eagle eye guy But those firefighters spent a week making sure that those embers were out. [SPEAKER_04]: That's right [SPEAKER_04]: and all they get is blame. [SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, the firefighters didn't do the roots of the trees, but whatever, shut up. [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, who was there a week later? [SPEAKER_04]: I saw them marching up to sidewalks, sit covered and tired, and I'm clapping. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just like, I can't believe you're still here. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

12:47 [SPEAKER_04]: And every time we had a fire for all those years, I lived in that camp in 23 years. [SPEAKER_04]: They always put it out. [SPEAKER_04]: So don't get mad. [SPEAKER_04]: Where were the firefighters? [SPEAKER_02]: They're doing their frickin' baths. [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. [SPEAKER_02]: It'll fire if there leaves a fire thinking to himself. [SPEAKER_02]: I hope I left that thing still burning. [SPEAKER_02]: Ugh, it's not how it works. [SPEAKER_04]: And also the responsibility for people when they say evacuate. [SPEAKER_04]: Some of you told me not a question. [SPEAKER_02]: It's a directive. [SPEAKER_04]: Right. [SPEAKER_04]: And the older ones who are like, I'm not leaving them out. [SPEAKER_04]: Across the street from our house to beautiful condo developments they were called the woody's right made a wood against the woods One was gone the other they were fighting and it was gonna maybe win the firefighters and then they got in a alert Then an old guy was still in this house.

13:31 [SPEAKER_04]: So it's bodies over buildings. [SPEAKER_04]: Yep, and they left it and it burned. [SPEAKER_04]: Yep Thank you old man who wouldn't listen to the order [SPEAKER_02]: Tell me more. [SPEAKER_02]: We have the same thing happen here. [SPEAKER_02]: We had a fire start and they evacuated the entire town of Windsor. [SPEAKER_02]: People didn't second guess it because the first time we figured it out exactly what you said. [SPEAKER_02]: It's bodies over buildings. [SPEAKER_02]: So when people are insistent upon staying in their houses because there's some loyalty to that or they believe that this house won't burn to the ground. [SPEAKER_02]: If there's been an evacuation order, it's not a conversation. [SPEAKER_02]: If this is not a question, [SPEAKER_02]: Please get out of the buildings because if we find out you're in a building we're gonna stop whatever we're doing To go back and get you and now other people are gonna lose their homes because we have to stop and do this now Of course there are people who can't get out of their homes.

14:17 [SPEAKER_02]: They're disabled. [SPEAKER_02]: There are kinds of limitations But the reality is if we can get people to obey authority when someone says [SPEAKER_02]: Please pull the car over. [SPEAKER_02]: Please get out of the building. [SPEAKER_02]: Please do what I'm asking you to do You have a greater chance of surviving because I promise you the people who were in church of disasters They have more information than you do Yeah, so Susan have you been to the reality center over here yet actually I just spoke to the owner Jonathan. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, since you were going over there I'm gonna make you because it is amazing and it you talk about being on the edge Being woo will yeah, be woo will it really helps. [SPEAKER_04]: It's like a loop [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, when you do it, so I can see a future, and I'm so glad you came to the summit to remind them, right?

15:01 [SPEAKER_02]: And he works with, um, we work with the Rick Allen and Lauren Monroe from he's the drummer of Death Lepard, and she, um, was, they were in the movie frequency, and so I didn't have any idea who Jonathan was, and I just met him, we just started talking and like, this is meant to be. [SPEAKER_04]: It's meant to be. [SPEAKER_04]: So you guys are so cool. [SPEAKER_04]: Now you're daughter. [SPEAKER_04]: What does she do? [SPEAKER_02]: My daughter is the CEO of a tech startup called perimeter. [SPEAKER_02]: And she started that right after I started this to help really it was to help people evacuate from disasters with information that was real time. [SPEAKER_02]: Because when we were being evacuated during the LMU fire and lightning complex fire [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know where to go. [SPEAKER_02]: We were out here in Rican Valley, and we knew the fire was spreading.

15:44 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know how fast it was traveling. [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know what direction it was going in. [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't know where the evacuation centers were, and we didn't know which way we were supposed to go. [SPEAKER_02]: And during the tub's fire, and you know this probably, and it probably turns the palisades. [SPEAKER_02]: When it gets night time, those street lights are gone. [SPEAKER_02]: all of your landmarks that you have no idea where you are, you need real time information and she decided to start a program. [SPEAKER_02]: Initially it was for firefighters and then it spread she's in 17 states in that country and it's for hurricanes, floods. [SPEAKER_02]: If the county buys that app from them perimeter, they give it to their civilians, their community and they can see where's the disaster, how fast is it moving, where's my closest evacuation center, how do I [SPEAKER_04]: So similar to watch duty, similar to watch duty.

16:30 [SPEAKER_04]: Probably, yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: Now, how does that feel that you and your daughter are both on this front line working with? [SPEAKER_02]: It's surreal because it was no conversation about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, she was actually, yeah, it's true. [SPEAKER_02]: She was at Berkeley. [SPEAKER_02]: She was a cognitive science major at Berkeley when the tub's fire hit. [SPEAKER_02]: I was, you know, obviously surviving my own cancer diagnosis and all that I had gone through in my experience. [SPEAKER_02]: I have this inspiration and vision to do something about it because I start researching why first responders were dying. [SPEAKER_02]: I find all this information out. [SPEAKER_02]: I do the reverse engineering as Gordon Graham says, if it's predictable, it's preventable. [SPEAKER_02]: And so I start doing all of this reverse engineering, finding out what's killing the first responders, and I call organizations asking for opinions, ideas on how can I start this organization, and I get told the same thing.

17:20 [SPEAKER_02]: Can't be done. [SPEAKER_02]: Can't be done. [SPEAKER_02]: Hashtag be changed in academia. [SPEAKER_02]: Hashtag be changed at the highest level. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, please. [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, but what if I sell my house and go door to door? [SPEAKER_02]: Like who can stop me then? [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what happened. [SPEAKER_02]: And I started the company of the organization I should say. [SPEAKER_02]: And nine months later my daughter was looking at the fact that the firefighters her dad included had maps on the hoods of their trucks. [SPEAKER_02]: And that's how they were tracking how fast the fire was spreading, where are we going, how are we doing this? [SPEAKER_02]: And she said, we can do better than this. [SPEAKER_02]: And my favorite story came as honestly that she and I were at coffee one day and she pulled out her little college backpack and she was reading a cognitive science book and I pulled out my little book bag and I was reading the same cognitive science book and I was trying to find out what was happening to the first responders and she was trying to figure out how to get her degree in cognitive science.

18:09 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god meant to be meant to be okay. [SPEAKER_04]: Well Susan I could talk to you for hours, but you for a final question You have spent 30 years taking care of people on the worst day of their lives, right? [SPEAKER_04]: And now you spend your time taking care of the people who do that [SPEAKER_04]: Is that a view? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, who takes care of you? [SPEAKER_02]: I love that my that answers me and I'm gonna tell you what one of my colleagues were on said he's a retired senator as a firefighter and he said maybe in my career I saved or cared for 10,000 people [SPEAKER_02]: But they were all strangers to me, none of them know me. [SPEAKER_02]: But now I get the gift of caring for my own. [SPEAKER_02]: And we have this internal mission statement that says, starting with ourselves, we train those who save others to save themselves.

18:55 [SPEAKER_02]: So first and foremost, I take care of me. [SPEAKER_02]: I do my own wellness before I ever teach anybody else. [SPEAKER_02]: I put on my own oxygen mask, before I help anyone else put on their own. [SPEAKER_04]: good girl, mantra, mantra of the wellness industry. [SPEAKER_04]: Peggy my friend and I are from the wellness industry. [SPEAKER_04]: How do you get educated on what to train your people? [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I can tell you that I have probably spent 20,000 hours in the last eight years reading. [SPEAKER_02]: Everything I can get my hands on from Joe Dispenza and Bruce Lipton to [SPEAKER_02]: Every neuroscience book I can think of, everything on cognitive performance, anything I can find on resiliency. [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm a student of the work, so I don't just read and then regurgitate.

19:38 [SPEAKER_02]: I read, apply, and pass on. [SPEAKER_02]: I read, apply, and pass on. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think for a lot of folks, we read, we know we regurgitate. [SPEAKER_02]: But I read, I absorb, I return. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, maybe we can help you and share some resources with you too. [SPEAKER_04]: Let's talk. [SPEAKER_04]: All right. [SPEAKER_04]: That's talk. [SPEAKER_04]: Your inspirational lady, keep it up. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_04]: They need you. [SPEAKER_04]: I appreciate you really do. [SPEAKER_04]: When disaster hits California, the first thing you need isn't a hero. [SPEAKER_04]: It's information that you can trust. [SPEAKER_04]: That's 211 available 24-7 in over 180 languages, connecting you to real people who know what's happening. [SPEAKER_04]: A evacuation routes, shelters, food, recovery help, before during and after the emergency.

20:26 [SPEAKER_04]: 211 reaches 98% of Californians, and it's there long after the news cameras leave, helping communities rebuild. [SPEAKER_04]: Remember, when an emergency strikes dial 211, or visit 211 california.org, get connected, get help. [SPEAKER_03]: Our sphere has become our reality, disasters are more common and more severe. [SPEAKER_03]: Every year, more communities are experiencing wildfires, floods, storms, and heatways that disrupt their lives and livelihoods. [SPEAKER_03]: New organization can meet this moment alone. [SPEAKER_03]: We must work together.

21:07 [SPEAKER_03]: At Good360 we serve as a connector. [SPEAKER_03]: We bring corporations, governments, and non-profits together to support communities before, during and long after a disaster so that people have what they need to prepare, recover and rebuild. [SPEAKER_03]: Join us at Good360.org. [SPEAKER_03]: Together, we can make sure no community faces disaster alone. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, it's post lunchtime in the second day of the wildfire leadership summit. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to not think about the happy hour tonight. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm not thinking about it because we're in one country, right? [SPEAKER_04]: But I am joined by a very... [SPEAKER_04]: a happy positive person who's doing important stuff.

21:51 [SPEAKER_04]: Jolie Wills, the founder and CEO of the Hummingly Foundation of that's a great word. [SPEAKER_04]: What does Hummingly do, Jolie? [SPEAKER_00]: Hummingly works to wrap support around the key locals. [SPEAKER_00]: They're the ones that are there for the long haul after recovery, and it's making sure that they feel equipped and supported to be able to meet the human challenges of disaster. [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and the reason you know how to do this is because you're a cognitive scientist and because you live through your own disaster early on, you let New Zealand's, um, the Red Cross's Psychosocial Recovery Program afterwards.

22:32 [SPEAKER_04]: So tell me about your first disaster truly. [SPEAKER_00]: I was really interested in disasters as a child, which is really interesting, you know, but there's something very different when you live it yourself and so I found myself, you know, none of us expect that this is how our life is going to turn we had a really large earthquake that had our city. [SPEAKER_00]: It was a fault that we didn't even know existed, so it was a real surprise for everybody involved. [SPEAKER_00]: So we had this massive earthquake that had, it was in September, 2010, magnitude 7.1 earthquake. [SPEAKER_00]: And then we had a series of aftershocks and one of those aftershocks, some of the greatest vertical accelerations ever experienced or recorded in urban environments, which led to [SPEAKER_00]: all sorts of carnage, as you can imagine.

23:21 [SPEAKER_00]: So we had a city of around 400,000 people, nine out of 10 homes damaged or destroyed and it can be used. [SPEAKER_00]: This is back in 2010 and 2011. [SPEAKER_00]: A series of earthquakes, so it wasn't just a one-off. [SPEAKER_00]: So 9 out of 10 homes damage will destroy it and there's just numbers, but you can start putting what does this mean for lives and families and communities and we lost 185 lives that huge ripple impact to all of that and just a huge rebuild effort ahead That was incredibly complex. [SPEAKER_00]: How long did the rebuild took? [SPEAKER_00]: We are 15 years on and still going [SPEAKER_00]: What did we use our virtual fitted back then? [SPEAKER_00]: We had great earthquake, you know, really good standards for our building coats and things.

24:07 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but we had some historic buildings. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So, there's been some change in shift in terms of some of the regulation since. [SPEAKER_00]: But there was also a human element as there isn't any disaster. [SPEAKER_00]: One or two of the buildings that came down were not historic and should not have ever. [SPEAKER_04]: Come down. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So, and that claimed a lot of lives. [SPEAKER_00]: So, even though it's a natural disaster within the world, it's no such thing, the human element was really, really huge. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, the healing process for that is complicated as we know when there's a human piece to any disaster. [SPEAKER_04]: Were you in psychology or cognitive science before the earthquake? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you were.

24:47 [SPEAKER_00]: What were you doing? [SPEAKER_00]: So before the earthquake had various roles working in community development and community support. [SPEAKER_00]: So everything from supporting older folks to community me to health, working with people with intellectual disabilities. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a range of things, but never expected to be working in disaster. [SPEAKER_04]: So what's a Winston Churchill fellow? [SPEAKER_04]: That's what you are as well. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a mint at the time I was leading this incredible team of people who like me were all locals all impacted by the disaster knowing that they needed to support the community and show up every day while managing their own recovery. [SPEAKER_00]: and this was going to go on for years, and so with the background and cognitive science, I knew we had to really sustain them, so I threw everything I could think of at this team.

25:33 [SPEAKER_00]: You name it, we tried it, all sorts of wellbeing approaches. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you did! [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and we were just burning them out slightly slower than everybody else. [SPEAKER_00]: And it led me to think, this is not the first disaster the world has ever had. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Someone must have worked this out. [SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't find anything that really helped point me in the right direction of how do I sustain those key locals that are so important to communities recovery? [SPEAKER_04]: The local leaders. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: The local leaders. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. [SPEAKER_00]: You're PTA in a school. [SPEAKER_00]: All of the folks that take... [SPEAKER_00]: Many different things. [SPEAKER_00]: Many different forms. [SPEAKER_00]: And the Winston Churchill Fellowship enabled me to visit. [SPEAKER_00]: These other communities around the world, including here in the U.S. You did!

26:13 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah! [SPEAKER_00]: Like a lot of this amazing study tour of all of these communities, looking not at the initial days, but at the long haul afterwards, which no one had really studied, to say, well, what do we need to do better and differently? [SPEAKER_00]: to sustain these key locals. [SPEAKER_00]: So we don't leave a community worse off so that community recovery is effective. [SPEAKER_00]: And what we don't do is bad things to these, you know, beautiful amazing people that are the best in the community. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're not replaceable. [SPEAKER_04]: They're not we set a waste with all that energy and, you know, gum shin and all, to lose that. [SPEAKER_04]: Now, um, [SPEAKER_04]: What about your visits?

26:54 [SPEAKER_04]: Where did you go to research what they did? [SPEAKER_00]: So we started in Australia. [SPEAKER_00]: They had large wildfires that decimated small rural communities. [SPEAKER_00]: Some pretty horrific impacts through multiple communities a couple years ahead of us. [SPEAKER_00]: So they were two years for the Dometrex. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: So that was in Victoria in Australia. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I talked to some amazing folks there. [SPEAKER_00]: which Japan talked to folks that were working in the tsunami and earthquake recovery there. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Here in the US, looking at 9-11, looking at some organisations that support aid, organisations, elsewhere, so came to California for that. [SPEAKER_00]: And then to the UK, looking at those that were supporting in Haiti as well.

27:37 [SPEAKER_00]: So, we're really good. [SPEAKER_00]: So, we're really good. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really where they had earthquake. [SPEAKER_00]: So, real range of countries, cultures, trying to get [SPEAKER_00]: every culture's different, every community's different, there are still some commonalities and more than what I thought there ever would be. [SPEAKER_04]: And so that research you were able to Arthur New Zealand's psychological first aid guide. [SPEAKER_00]: It came first with a guide around how do we sustain the supporters? [SPEAKER_00]: That's what came from that research. [SPEAKER_00]: But on the... [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the work that we did in Christchurch was sustaining the supporters was a big part, but there's also a lot of work around how do we support this community through the cumulative pressure, the aftershocks, the complex rebuild, how do we support in a population-wide approach when you've got hundreds of thousands of people impacted?

28:24 [SPEAKER_00]: So it was developing programs and ways to support this community that's a lot of the work that Hummingly does now is helping locals on the ground understand how to address the human impacts and weave it in early so that we focus on not just the built piece but the human pieces as well. [SPEAKER_04]: The human piece which is what we all are here. [SPEAKER_04]: Buildings are not for all just people surviving. [SPEAKER_04]: We understand what I'm living in. [SPEAKER_00]: And the psychological first date, I came a little bit [SPEAKER_00]: further down the track as we started thinking about what does it look like to have a we're you know an interesting culture we're a colonized land so you're even Indigenous culture their mind as well so thinking about what does it look like psychological first aid guidance and principles what does that look like in our New Zealand context which is to have some similarities to you know the Hawaii culture yeah so we're looking then that was sort of once thinking beyond [SPEAKER_00]: get better at thinking about building in the human impacts a heat of time that's where that came from.

29:23 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I am so impressed with Jenna for a great toss of because, you know, I lived in Hawaii six years, three years on now I three years on the big on it and there is a thick and clear culture. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes, you can ignore it, you can blow it right by it, but it really is the bones of the place. [SPEAKER_04]: And she hasn't said embraced it and is so in, [SPEAKER_04]: been odd by it. [SPEAKER_04]: I can tell because you talked about it all the time. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: So I'm sure you learned a lot from the Indigenous people in New Zealand. [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to say anything about how they recover or what they feel about earthquakes, I think there's a real natural or really under this, there's an understanding that already exists, I think, in Indigenous communities about the holistic nature of [SPEAKER_00]: people, communities support that already exists, you know, so they're much better thinking about holistically.

30:13 [SPEAKER_00]: So often we think about support after disaster for mental health, sits in one bucket and it's counselling and then over here we have rebuilding a house and it looks like this. [SPEAKER_00]: Actually no, like we are all of these things are connected and we need to look at people holistically [SPEAKER_00]: the fact disaster happens to a community, not just to an individual, so there's very individual journeys that are specific to everybody, but there's a collective element that in a Western culture we're not as good at understanding and responding to, and I think there's streets ahead of us. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I mean, we need to talk to anybody like we interviewed Tony Hawking from Team Palace Saints, and he went on on some press with his work, but then he talked with his children, and how his youngest took it really hard losing his town and his school and his house and whatever, and the house is kind of the last thing, right, that you're really morning.

31:09 [SPEAKER_04]: So let's first talk about how you named Hummingly Hummingly Why? [SPEAKER_00]: Why did you do that? [SPEAKER_00]: because we wanted something that really captured, I guess humans in a state that is well, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We're in a place where we're healing, we are well again, we're back feeling great. [SPEAKER_00]: You are having a lot, you're having a long, and often a lot of the terms that we would throw around, came up with it were, [SPEAKER_00]: a note, right? [SPEAKER_00]: They were active. [SPEAKER_00]: And there's no resting, well, we hope there is some resting, but you know, disaster recovery is such a busy act of time when we want to sustain the supporters, for example, it's not that we can just take them off the front lines for the next year, right?

31:53 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to find a way to have them humming to be able to serve the community in a way [SPEAKER_00]: and positive state that we all want to get to. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to be having, we want to community be having a game. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to be excited about our future. [SPEAKER_04]: So for our listeners, you have an accent. [SPEAKER_04]: You're from that beautiful place. [SPEAKER_04]: You did so much work in New Zealand in Australia. [SPEAKER_04]: But now you're here. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: And what have you done with Pacific palaces? [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: Since there are fires on the January 225. [SPEAKER_00]: So we've been part of the after-the-fire delegations. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: Which is been really amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: And we have managed to work alongside. [SPEAKER_00]: some of the supporters, those key locals that are so critical, right?

32:34 [SPEAKER_00]: They are at, they are at, they are the ones doing the doing and they are the ones that a community will rely on. [SPEAKER_00]: And so we've run some workshops, it's really have looked at how do we make sure we prevent burnout, right? [SPEAKER_00]: How do we set them up to be sustainable and in a way that, yeah, it's okay for that. [SPEAKER_02]: Let's see. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: I had a scene, something was going on behind me. [SPEAKER_04]: So we'll just say, we'll just start over with. [SPEAKER_02]: It's not a sentence yet, let me go over there. [SPEAKER_04]: We don't know what sentence it was. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_04]: Palaces. [SPEAKER_04]: What you're doing, the palaces, do. [SPEAKER_04]: So what specifically have you been doing in the palaces with homingway? [SPEAKER_00]: We've been part of the after-the-fired delegation, which is always amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's always a privilege.

33:15 [SPEAKER_00]: And we ran some workshops and provided some... [SPEAKER_00]: some key tools and guidance to the locals that really are the be-all and indoor of recovery they are the ones that carry it all and will support their community through with the aim of sustaining their sustainability knowing that they are here for the long haul, setting them up for that. [SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing was really amazing we had the Pelle Long Term Recovery Group. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, used one of our resources we ran a session with a group of seniors who are coming [SPEAKER_00]: and they'd often would gather them for lunch, you know, to check in with each other, to talk about the various recovery resources on offer, and this time we used our cards for calamity, which have a whole lot of gems from others who have been through disaster, other community members, but using them as a conversation prompt and a conversation starter so that these seniors were sitting around the table, sharing their experiences being prompted by the cards.

34:13 [SPEAKER_00]: and the amount of trust in the depth of conversation and the connection that was going on, the cards aren't there to support them along to those connections and conversations that go on in the room. [SPEAKER_00]: That's where the magic is. [SPEAKER_00]: And so some of the feedback we had from that is that just there was so much more laughter, there was so much more sharing, it just felt deeper, more meaning for and it's [SPEAKER_00]: it's empowering to know that you have a role in supporting someone else around the table that you're not a passive recipient or vulnerable person as someone who's older, right? [SPEAKER_00]: They have an active part to play in supporting each other, which is amazing. [SPEAKER_04]: So the prompt really reminds me I attended this marvelous program called Saved by a story and they give you a writing prompt, right?

34:58 [SPEAKER_04]: Right, like you're getting a message from an inanimate object. [SPEAKER_04]: you know, whatever. [SPEAKER_04]: And it's all fire survivors in this particular workshop. [SPEAKER_04]: But the things I heard, you know, right about a gem you've found. [SPEAKER_04]: And one moment talked about rush out in 15 minutes, driving all the way to I've been remember the yellow box that I remember the yellow box. [SPEAKER_04]: And when she got to where she was going escaping the fire, she opened her stuff and there was the yellow box and she opened it. [SPEAKER_04]: It was a minute long story. [SPEAKER_04]: It was her grandmother's Holocaust pin. [SPEAKER_04]: from the camps, right? [SPEAKER_04]: And then another woman, the prompt was, you know, and in an ananimate object talking to, she wrote herself a letter like her house was talking to her, her house that burned down. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for loving me, for never tearing me down, for we built so much together.

35:42 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're like, oh my God. [SPEAKER_00]: These have very much the human layers, the human elements that are so critical to recovery, that often we don't create the space for or have the understanding of how to go about. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really valuable, those things. [SPEAKER_04]: Really valuable. [SPEAKER_04]: And the senior luncheon for LTRG, I had, you know, got to go visit one. [SPEAKER_04]: And I just pulled two, three people out, interviewing for five minutes each. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's nice for me and for the podcast for the Kim on the street. [SPEAKER_04]: But how about each other? [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: Talking to each other. [SPEAKER_04]: So that's what you're trying to do, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_04]: So, hummingly is not just disaster cards, but what would you say the tools? [SPEAKER_00]: Why are the tools important? [SPEAKER_00]: Tools are important because we've spent a lot of time thinking about, we operate from understanding the disaster impacted brain.

36:28 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? [SPEAKER_00]: We have very little capacity to take on more information or to do more hard work because there's so much hard work involved, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever called your insurance adjuster? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't need more of that. [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's so weighed down by all that. [SPEAKER_00]: So, [SPEAKER_00]: we're looking to take what we know is really great, you know, evidence informed materials, research, things we know that are really critical to understand knowledge about the human impacts of recovery and making them interesting and engaging and using them in a way. [SPEAKER_00]: that support that community connection and conversation and the social capital, all those pieces that we know are so important.

37:09 [SPEAKER_04]: But we want to tell our listeners that you didn't just make up some cards. [SPEAKER_04]: It's not like playing cards that you've had printed at Kinkos if you have that New Zealand. [SPEAKER_04]: The decade was reviewed by UC Berkeley and Harvard faculty, but they didn't make them up either. [SPEAKER_04]: How did you come up with the prompts? [SPEAKER_00]: years of working in disaster recovery and speaking with community members, who were sharing forward what they had learned, what they had wished they had now and what recovery was like for them and curating the things that we know cross across disasters, like always acknowledging every disaster's unique and every community's unique. [SPEAKER_00]: but there are some common pieces that are such a relief to see people say just seeing a quote from someone and another disaster someone else somewhere else that reflects their experience.

37:59 [SPEAKER_00]: That just feels so much less alone, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And knowing, oh my goodness, this is normal. [SPEAKER_00]: It is not me. [SPEAKER_00]: We are so hard on ourselves. [SPEAKER_00]: So we are going to see that reflected those real experiences from other community members. [SPEAKER_00]: And think about, oh, I hadn't thought about that or [SPEAKER_00]: These cards give away to put language and words to what I'm feeling, but didn't even know I was feeling until I saw it on a card and now I can have a conversation blocs, we'll say, you're asking me how I'm doing, I don't really know what to say, but I can get this, this, right? [SPEAKER_00]: There's something about the cards that help with, you know, we get a lot of stuff comes through tech as a way of, all the things that we have to fill in for the forms and all the information and [SPEAKER_00]: There's something that is a mental break and a good way of mental break, right?

38:48 [SPEAKER_00]: And having the cards to be able to be unjubble, to pack a time, to be able to feel much more relaxing and it's much easier to connect and also have these visible reminders. [SPEAKER_00]: They can sit on someone's bookshelf or their bedside table or on a coffee table and a community center, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And people can just pick [SPEAKER_00]: pick from them over time. [SPEAKER_04]: And one thing I've noticed since, you know, we are survivors of the fire, men often, my husband doesn't like to talk about it. [SPEAKER_04]: Who be like, are you dumb with that? [SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I'm tired of fire. [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, well, but you have things that you need to get out. [SPEAKER_04]: And it would be so great just to have the cards to sit and go, honey. [SPEAKER_04]: But we both, you know, you can't hide from that.

39:29 [SPEAKER_04]: So, the Australian Red Cross bought 6,000 packs of cards for calamity, for their own recovery teams, not for people they serve, but their own teams, what are the doing well cards? [SPEAKER_00]: What is this? [SPEAKER_00]: and just to care for those 6,000 did end up going into communities as well. [SPEAKER_00]: Remember a couple of years ago it felt like the whole of Australia was on fire. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do always call it a layer of COVID over top. [SPEAKER_00]: Yep. [SPEAKER_00]: And that was really interesting because it's how we support people in this environment when we can't have the same in community because of COVID. [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. [SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea at the time was that they would distribute these cards into community. [SPEAKER_00]: It would be this individual resource that people would dip in an out of. [SPEAKER_00]: They could see what recovery looks like typically.

40:10 [SPEAKER_00]: they could see themselves in it and they would find strategy and guidance in them. [SPEAKER_00]: So these personal private resources, they cannot, everyone's going to tune up to community session with a psychologist, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Not in Australia, anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was the idea. [SPEAKER_00]: And Silly asked, we should have known better because we started hearing these stories from community members saying, [SPEAKER_00]: we're now using the cards at our local radio station. [SPEAKER_00]: Someone will read out a card and then they'll open up the air waves and people will call in with their experience of that. [SPEAKER_00]: Or the local rugby club made a calendar out of their favourite cards. [SPEAKER_00]: Is it like Aussie blocs, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And then, which, you know, amazes me or the parents were some of them were dropping their kids at the school gate on a Friday.

40:53 [SPEAKER_00]: they were turning up with the car that resonated within that week and they were going like what a walk and talk and they were just here and they were taught together and hands after dropping on the floor. [SPEAKER_00]: So this is where your peer support and community recovery happens. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't happen with the experts coming in. [SPEAKER_00]: It happens with you know empowering the locals. [SPEAKER_04]: So there's something that you do call it disaster dinner, right? [SPEAKER_04]: Okay, I'm cheating, Julia. [SPEAKER_04]: I'm on the website. [SPEAKER_04]: I have a card that you pass out at some of the disasters and ours. [SPEAKER_04]: Here's what it says. [SPEAKER_04]: It is easy to lose your bearings after disaster. [SPEAKER_04]: Make a plan. [SPEAKER_04]: Be intentional about, intentional about where you put time, energy, and resources. [SPEAKER_04]: This will determine where you land and what your posts disaster life will be. [SPEAKER_04]: If one does not know to which part when is sailing, then no wind is favorable.

41:36 [SPEAKER_04]: According to [SPEAKER_04]: questions. [SPEAKER_04]: What's most important in your life? [SPEAKER_04]: What can you not afford to lose? [SPEAKER_04]: Who can help you make a plan? [SPEAKER_00]: What's the purpose of that? [SPEAKER_00]: So the purpose of that particular card is so often we see folks get home. [SPEAKER_00]: They've rebuilt their home and in their mind and in everyone who's supported them to get home and their minds recovery's done and then they move into their home and they're like, [SPEAKER_00]: right. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't yet have the connection with this way. [SPEAKER_00]: Am I still not feeling good, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Because they're not prepared. [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's the emotional recovery journey that has to happen in parallel with the rebuilding and we can get so absorbed with the to-do list, the physical rebuild that we come out the other end and realize that maybe our marriages and [SPEAKER_00]: because we can't put that stuff on hold.

42:30 [SPEAKER_00]: We're thinking if we do how to do list and recovery, get through that, then we can go back to all the other things in our life. [SPEAKER_00]: And in the meantime, the things that are really important to them have suffered. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, maybe kids, parenting, health, and might be the marriage, the relationships, might be the community, and the sense of unity. [SPEAKER_00]: So we can become, and I remember that drive just to simply so fixate if I can just get through this to do list, but it goes on for a long time. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's that idea that through this process of recovery, we have to keep an eye on the things that are really important to us. [SPEAKER_00]: As we go through, we don't just want to have a house at the other end. [SPEAKER_00]: We want to have a life that is meaningful to us. [SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what I'm talking about, but for my husband and I, it is so funny because people are so sick of me talking about.

43:16 [SPEAKER_04]: It's like, push a button, I'll talk about the fire, you know, in our outside world, people that didn't do it. [SPEAKER_04]: Didn't go through it. [SPEAKER_04]: And we finally moved to where we think we're going to stay. [SPEAKER_04]: It's a year and eight months later, it's my ninth move because I have two dogs who wanted them. [SPEAKER_04]: We didn't have enough insurance to like rent a big expensive place. [SPEAKER_04]: So now where we think we're going to be. [SPEAKER_04]: And we move last week and be right before I came here. [SPEAKER_04]: So it's not in place, but why has one I just were like, oh my God, it was almost like lead boots were taken off our feet. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so crazy, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's massive relief to being in a place, but often people will say, I don't feel the way that I think I should, or if they haven't been able to keep intact or those things that are important to them.

44:00 [SPEAKER_00]: they've lost some really important things along the way. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's reminding people that our lives aren't just the house, the structure we live in, it's those other things that we need to keep. [SPEAKER_00]: Top of our list as we think through recovery. [SPEAKER_04]: So tell me what a disaster dinner would enter. [SPEAKER_04]: What happens? [SPEAKER_00]: So come and ask what we've done. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is what we heard from Australia. [SPEAKER_00]: So in the case, they had their community was dispersed because [SPEAKER_00]: everyone's in temporary accommodation and figuring out can they rebuild, what does that look like, and they were really grappling with how do we keep our community united, connected, how does no one understands what we're going through like others who are going through it.

44:40 [SPEAKER_00]: And so how do we give people a chance to connect because often in communities where others around them don't understand? [SPEAKER_00]: So how do we give them a chance to connect and take some respite from the relentless to do of recovery? [SPEAKER_00]: And so once a month they put on what they called a barbecue like a grill, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And they gathered everybody together. [SPEAKER_00]: and to everybody's plate, they put a different card. [SPEAKER_00]: And so every card has a different reflection and quote or idea from around, you know, there's different communities. [SPEAKER_00]: And around the table, we would all just take turns of reading our card and then we would talk about what we heard that resonated with us and why. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, some of these folks knew each other well and some of them really didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: But the end of the conversation, right? [SPEAKER_00]: We realize we weren't alone in what we were experiencing that actually we might have some common challenges [SPEAKER_00]: or I've solved that when I managed to find my way through that one, how can I share what I've learned with you?

45:34 [SPEAKER_00]: And so again, it's that mutual support and a community that is so, so important to recovery and it just helps. [SPEAKER_00]: How should we get that going? [SPEAKER_04]: So what is it between the doing well, the doing well cards? [SPEAKER_00]: Cards and the cards for calamity. [SPEAKER_00]: So we have different programs and how many is that? [SPEAKER_00]: overall idea around hummingly is that we want the emotional aftershocks of recovery not to be what is lasting for people. [SPEAKER_00]: We want those to give way to coming out the other end with you know a life that we're proud of, a community that we're proud of. [SPEAKER_00]: And so there are it's all about the human impacts. [SPEAKER_00]: So we have one program that is supporting locals around understanding the human impacts of disaster.

46:15 [SPEAKER_00]: How do we support people through it? [SPEAKER_00]: The cards for calamity are part of that program. [SPEAKER_00]: with locals to understand what's ahead, what is really helpful in terms of supporting the community through it, and the cards for calamity are really helpful education tool that they use in the workshop, but they also can take and use it in so many different ways in a community. [SPEAKER_00]: Another program that we run as a round, how do we make sure we sustain the supporters? [SPEAKER_00]: Right, we don't want them burning out. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want to see, I mean, honestly, we've heard from folks that, you know, the loss of life and we were just in a small community in Texas last week. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, the Texas Hill Country? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God. [SPEAKER_00]: And we're at Georgia. [SPEAKER_00]: And we do a lot of work in curvil, but we also do work in another area that is much less well-known.

47:00 [SPEAKER_00]: They had less loss of life, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Greater property damage, less loss of life. [SPEAKER_00]: People ask me how many people do we lose and I'll say only one and one is still one to me. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for that family, for that family, that is horrific, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Only one, they would say, which compared to curvil, they're feeling the fact that you know, being able to say that. [SPEAKER_00]: So when they say, but actually we have lost more to the disaster since the disaster. [SPEAKER_00]: more lives than on the day of the event because of the disaster, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And that is very, very common. [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean suicide? [SPEAKER_00]: To a side and, you know, various health, yeah.

47:41 [SPEAKER_00]: So the impacts are very, very real, but the problems that they're hidden, you know, they're hidden and they're not as obvious as the tangible things we can fix, feel, fix and touch and count. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, for them, they have realized the human impacts and white matters and they want to be much more proactive about making sure that we're sustaining the supporters in particular, and the doing well cards are one of the resources we use and that that series of workshops to to protect the supporters. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, in our other podcast, LA Rising, I interviewed the head of Texas Hill Country Community Foundation. [SPEAKER_04]: He's from there. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: And he asked him immediately the morning after the flood, so he was walking up with explosive dings.

48:24 [SPEAKER_04]: he put out the URL on the counter canceled email and got what was it 30 million in a couple days and he's grown that little seed money to help that whole place he judiciously sums up that money I worry about him and the habitat for humanity gal-marrying campanna or whatever [SPEAKER_04]: I'm just here to say, these people are angels on earth. [SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of people. [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, they're the best people you can imagine, and I can tell you horror stories and the whole point is to prevent those horror stories. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because the flip side of it is that as difficult as these years are, [SPEAKER_00]: it is this incredible learning environment where, honestly, you come out the other end and you think, you can throw just about anything at me now.

49:06 [SPEAKER_00]: You know? [SPEAKER_00]: And what are resources to have that in your community? [SPEAKER_00]: Someone who's learnt so much about so many different things is an incredibly leadership's expanded and grow and like the growth that is possible doesn't feel like it when you're in the thick of it. [SPEAKER_00]: And the fear is more like the other side. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: But if we can support people the right way, you end up, there's an [SPEAKER_00]: readable community assets, right? [SPEAKER_00]: And this incredible growth in a community at the other end. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the hope piece. [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. [SPEAKER_00]: But we got to avoid what we know will happen if we're not intentional about preventing it. [SPEAKER_04]: So, Joy, let's just close by saying that, you know, I get impacted by things because I've been through this. [SPEAKER_04]: So, what kills me about this message is that, [SPEAKER_04]: It's not just the triage of the emergency, but it's literally in medicine long-term care.

49:54 [SPEAKER_04]: And if you don't provide that long-term care, the patient will die. [SPEAKER_04]: Yes. [SPEAKER_04]: So this is long-term care for community and individual recovery. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a proactive and preventative. [SPEAKER_04]: Proactive, preventative. [SPEAKER_04]: That's wellness, if you ask me. [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it is. [SPEAKER_04]: So Julie, I think it's so much more than cards. [SPEAKER_04]: You're using them as a tool to dig really deep. [SPEAKER_04]: It's almost like the kind of wound that he was on the top and not the bottom, right? [SPEAKER_04]: So, boy did I learn a lot, because I thought Hummingling was just silly little guards. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, people smile. [SPEAKER_00]: I know, it's the visible piece that people engage with in love, but often we get mistaken for that being, but it's much more the scaffolding of support for those key locals. [SPEAKER_00]: We walk alongside them as they do the hard work. [SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you for taking your shaking experience and your education and applying it in such a beautiful way.

50:40 [SPEAKER_04]: To keep us all humming along. [SPEAKER_04]: Thank you very much.