2. They Said It Wasn’t His Lane. He Built It Anyway | John Mills of Watch Duty

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to how to disaster and I'm so proud today to bring you my friend and a game changer in the entire universe that we live in, which in my case is Megafire.

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[SPEAKER_01]: John Mills is one of the co-founders and he's the CEO of Watchtudy.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Watch Judy is an app that you download on your phone and it gives you all kinds of information right now They um, they do fires, but they are going to expand to other parols very proud to say that Do watch Judy was founded here in Sonoma County where I live and it was founded during our fourth Megafire after our fourth megafire in four years

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[SPEAKER_01]: We had absolutely no nerve endings left.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was really hard and for people like, you know, I'm not a first responder at all But because I run a trusted non-profit I would have to stay up all night in order to push out good information so that people could help stay safe because, you know, unfortunately in the age of social media We had some people who were doing a great job and some people who were not doing is good of a job

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[SPEAKER_01]: Why should you sort of solved all of that?

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[SPEAKER_01]: It really took me out of the space and the lane that I should have never even been in, but I was in there by necessity.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It keeps us safe.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It tells us where to go, where the wind is going, air quality.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're me, then you are a member and I pay $25 a year, so I could also see the, how they're actually fighting the fire.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I trust it, completely.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, John and I have been friends for about five years now, and I really think you're going to enjoy our conversation.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We touch on so many things from how it was started, why it's necessary.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And decisions he made are on keeping it a non-profit, but also how do you build a revenue on the back?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And why entrepreneurship is so important in a space where we are faced with unprecedented perils that we can actually address when we are realistic, and we listen to what the

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[SPEAKER_01]: and we solve problems together.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, enjoy my conversation with John Mills, and thank you so much for joining us on How to Disaster.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome, John Mills, to How to Disaster, it's so good to see you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for having me, I appreciate it.

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[SPEAKER_01]: For those of the audience who don't know, I've known John now for about four, almost five years.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And we are actually both located in Sonoma County, and our origin stories converged about four or five years ago when John took a big step to actually fix this major problem we were having.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're sort of the OGs in the Megafire space.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As many of you know, Omega fires have increased over 250% in the past eight years, and John took this step towards actually fixing one of our most major problems.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So he is the co-founder and CEO of WatchDuty, and if you don't mind, can you just give us a description of what WatchDuty is for those of, I hope all listeners know, but in case they don't,

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, thanks Jennifer, it's been an interesting road together.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Watched duty simply put is an emergency, a learning platform for wildfires, soon to be many other disasters, but we started it about five years ago when we started experienced fastfires and mega fires and had no information about it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So it's literally a free app you can download in the App Store, Andrew and IOS.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We are non-profit organizations, so when you sign up, there's

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[SPEAKER_03]: No email, no text message, no verification, no tracking.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's like the internet used to be when it was a safer place.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And once you download it, you can sign up for different alerts for your county and you'll be notified about all the wildfire activity that is happening nearby.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and it actually so can you talk about what it was like there are when you were sitting there trying to monitor a fire near you because we were all suffering so much in Sonoma County we had a we had a massive megafire in 2017 to in 2019 and a fourth in 2020 so tell us about that very human centric side of it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, for all us residents here, I mean, we would, you know, some of us, let me grab my radio here, some of us have fire service radios where you listen, and many other folks found a lot of good information actually on Facebook and Twitter, believe it or not, between all the noise, you'd find people like myself and others who would listen to fire service radios pretty much 18, 24 hours a day when these big fires were happening and they would be relaying

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[SPEAKER_03]: The Firefighter Tactics and Communications in real time on the Internet.

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[SPEAKER_03]: The first fire went through, I didn't know that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I just moved here and it was a couple of acre fire about half a mile from where I'm standing right now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I was sitting, I guess.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I didn't know that I existed at the time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And then it wasn't until the 2020 fires.

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[SPEAKER_03]: when I found all the really good people about three days and I couldn't, I didn't know where to go.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And I wasn't being told very much.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so you're kind of left to your own devices, scrambling to see the news and whatever information you can get.

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[SPEAKER_03]: That information is usually old.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's miles away from you.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're, you know, the news is doing with the news does, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: They're reporting on it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But if you live here, you need to know where it actually is.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so,

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[SPEAKER_03]: you don't really get any real time intelligence and the best you can get is actually from the first responder radio communications and that's what I'd come to realize at that time and that was really going to be the the impetus to start watch duty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: and how many to I love this part of it though because I relate to it so much like I you know I just did a commercial for you accidentally but happy to do it I thought it was filming a documentary and I was like anyway I was very honored to do it and I meant every word of it and I actually loved the part that your team pulled because there are very few tools that we've gotten as citizens over the past you know five to 10 years it actually

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[SPEAKER_01]: can calm us and give us information in one place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And so can you talk about all the tabs you had open because I relate to this so much?

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[SPEAKER_03]: One of our early amontras was this concept of one less browser tab.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And what I mean by that is when you first go through these fires, you have windy.com but to see the wind layers, you have a less open or back then it was called a large wildfire with all the mountaintop cameras.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You had calfires page open, you had all these different pages open and you just keep going back and forth refreshing them all.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Not of them sent you alerts, you have to kind of coagulate it all together, you can't see it all in one place.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, we slowly started, you know, closing one tab at a time, one tab at a time.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So finally, we had everything in one place.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Now there's still more, but all of the core functionality that we set out to accomplish, we accomplished about 18 months ago.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And now all of us myself included, there was just a fire down the road for me last night It's all at one place, and so I don't have to be switching back and forth on different apps or browser tabs And I can actually get it all co-related in one place.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So much less stressful and the other side of it is is that I

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[SPEAKER_01]: I am not a first responder at all and that I would be staying up all night through these fires to push out good information and I'd be going to the CHP and I'd be going to Cal Fire and I'd be going to the counties and like figuring out where people could evacuate to, where's the wind shift is really important.

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of my favorite things that you have on watch duty because it's not

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[SPEAKER_01]: a full predictor, but it gives you a very good idea of where it's headed, so when you open watch DD, you actually get how big is the fire real time, how are they fighting, and if you're me, you're a member, so you also get to see the helicopters, which I really enjoy, all of the aerial pieces of it, but for the safety side of it, we used to stay up all night to push out good information because there were people who were pushing out bad information, and

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[SPEAKER_01]: one of them we won't name that person but I would call her she would just take other people's stuff and then ask people to Venmo her so there was also a transactional nature to the citizen reporting of it not with everybody there is some like Matt Henderson I just think are great and I would follow him always but there were others that it just felt sketch not quite right and I wanted to be able to trust it so

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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a very big deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as it watched UD came online, like I could go to sleep at night, and I no longer had to stay up all night and stay because I was way outside of my lane, and I feel like for a lot of people that that was one of the big changes, especially for a mental health.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to be able to sleep through these, it's a very big deal.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So tell me about the moment when you were like, wait a minute, and at

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[SPEAKER_01]: I also like the point of not asking permission if you're going to improve the entire space.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So can you walk us through your journey of starting it, designing it, talking to people about it?

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it was an interesting adventure like starting any company.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Although this is a non-profit, it smells the same.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter what you tell the IRS.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I just knew that this was something that was important that it was public for the public by the public.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This is something that...

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel should be a profit center.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I really wanted the government to solve this problem personally because, you know, this is what we pay taxes for, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: I want better roads, better schools, better hospitals.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And unfortunately, we live in a world now where...

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[SPEAKER_03]: money isn't being used the way that we think.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so this isn't really about us or them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I just wanted the problem solved.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't care how it got solved.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Then I quickly realized after, you know, after the 2020 lightning fires in Northern California, I kind of went on a mission and started to figure out where I could be of service.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so I started spending time with firefighters, with fire chiefs, stewing ride-alongs, interviewing folks, talking to community members, going to dispatch centers, trying to understand,

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[SPEAKER_03]: how the situation, how we got here, like how is this the reality that we were all living in?

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it wasn't until about March of 2021 when it hit me and I knew what the answer was.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I knew that the government wasn't gonna solve it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: why I'm not going to get into but ultimately it's it's a challenging thing to do it takes a full-time staff it takes a lot of technology but it takes a lot of people to do it as well right we we are you know a human driven company and so we need people listening to radio's 24 hours a day but back to the point when I was you know asking

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[SPEAKER_03]: higher level top brass they would tell me no that they got it they don't need my help and that was kind of the realization that I knew that there was something up why didn't really matter to me I just wanted an answer and so you know in March I dreamt up the idea and then it took me another three months to decide whether or not I was going to go build this thing

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I've run and started other companies before when I was younger and now in my 40s, I think about things differently.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't just jump to the solution.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I really have to convince myself, this is the right thing to do and after.

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[SPEAKER_03]: kind of planting the seed and in my friends heads who became my co-founders and others finally they convinced me to do it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It was first it was me just couldn't stop talking about it and then ultimately I realized that this was the answer, this was going to be something really big and I really had to make sure that I had

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know go to market plan for this as well which is something that's overlooked by a lot of technologists people believe if you build it they will come and that's not a strategy right that's that's not an answer an advertising isn't an answer either right those are tactics not strategies and so

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[SPEAKER_03]: After a little bit, I had my team, I had my strategy, and it was really involving all the radio operators that I was listening to on Facebook and Twitter, and I realized that if I could get them and board, and their large audiences would follow them, this would take off overnight.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, that's what happened, and it's kind of blown up ever since.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's really the kind of beginning story of watch duty.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's remarkable because over the period of five years you went from seeing the problem and I love the fact that you're talking about how thoughtful you've been about it because the thought actually shows so clearly in the app like you really haven't had a bunch of missteps which one might expect from a completely new way of doing this new of addressing this new problem and I remember when it first year in Sonoma County and then

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[SPEAKER_01]: You missed steps along the way as you went from Sonoma County and then more counties and then California and then tomorrow's states.

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then this year, now you're in all of the states in the United States.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe one day you'll be global.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I assume that that's on your plate.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But can you talk about like how important it is for that thought piece of it?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then tell us a little bit about all the people who are surrounding you, all of the people who've been who are not only volunteer there a time, but

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[SPEAKER_01]: have made this really a big part of their entire life keeping the rest of us safe.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, look, there's an incredible amount of diligence that goes into this, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: There are so humans involved right now.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We have 55 staff and 300 volunteers.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, like any other situation, whether it's, you know, the military or it's the public information officers inside of, you know, the sheriff's office and fire departments is we've been incredible amount of training that goes into this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We don't just pick up strangers on the street and say, here's a radio start typing information into watch duty.

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we have an incredibly complicated code of conduct where we have a line about what we do and don't publish when we publish it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a lot of training that goes into this.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, many of them are experts have been doing this for a long time, but we still have yearly certifications of all these people.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Many of them have

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[SPEAKER_03]: You know, PIO credentials from the FEMA ICS structure.

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[SPEAKER_03]: They train and train and retrain and have 10,000 hours.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There were more into this because they were doing this for years before I found them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, directly, there are mistakes made.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's just very few.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And there are human mistakes that happen.

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[SPEAKER_03]: from PIOs as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: This is no shade against them, but like oftentimes, you know, misinformation can happen.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We just saw it the other day at Riverside County where like different organizations are claiming information about a fire that frankly isn't them.

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[SPEAKER_03]: right from our opinion, the incident commander who is running the fire, it's his responsibility or hers to a run that incident and all the information coming from him or her is the best information you can get.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But meanwhile, you still have different people claiming

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[SPEAKER_03]: different things, which is very, very confusing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so our job is to actually insert that information.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So there's many times that we'll hear things from a PIO or something on the radio that we don't frankly believe.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We heard aerotax say something else.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so,

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[SPEAKER_03]: we will wait and collaborate.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We're always talking in Slack 24 hours a day that's how we we work together.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's not just one person screaming into the east there.

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[SPEAKER_03]: There's multiple people listening and confirming what is going on.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so there are times in real time that we hear misinformation, even from different agencies themselves.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's not their fault, but

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[SPEAKER_03]: We have one job, and our only job is to sift and sort through everything that we're hearing.

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[SPEAKER_03]: It's really what the military recalls, signals and intelligence.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We get a lot of different signals, some of them are wrong, and it's really important for us to sit on information as well.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so...

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know there's this misnomer which is kind of gone but we first started we were so quick people thought we were hasty and i'm like well the bar is so low you know like forty five minutes get information it like just because we're quick doesn't mean that we're hasty and so still to this day you know will the radio traffic that

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[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe sounds like 15 or 50.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We don't know what the difference is.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We'll wait for another transmission.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We'll wait for Eric to call out, call out acreage information or firefighting tactics.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And it's really important for us to chase accuracy, not speed.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And that's really what's at the start of the part and also what brings us to the forefront of this world.

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[SPEAKER_01]: We're in such a position of trust too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't worry when I open up Watch Studio and watching Nebraska fires and it also gives me a whole snapshot of what the entire country is doing and one of the things I noticed last week when I was watching cone of floods in Maui and Omega fires in Nebraska.

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[SPEAKER_01]: But I was looking at the entire span of the country now and I'm seeing like all the, oh, something you added.

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[SPEAKER_01]: which I love so much is the prescribed burns which is meant a lot to us because once you've been through magnifiers you're kind of like a prairie dog every time something happens like everyone's alerts and you're looking around and you're smelling and you're trying to figure out of my endanger because now we know how fast these magnifiers run and you know our central nervous system just shot over this thing so

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[SPEAKER_01]: It was wonderful for you to put on the prescribed burns in particular, but something I saw is that California was all green, full of prescribed burns, right?

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[SPEAKER_01]: And then if you look as you went over to the Midwest and into Florida, I just saw tons of fire activity that was not green.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Some of it was green, but for the most part it was not green.

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[SPEAKER_01]: Can you take us through like,

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[SPEAKER_01]: So the beginning to this place where you are now and then where are you headed because it's been a very rapid bit of growth for you and a lot of reception and LA was a big game changer too.

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[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd like to if you could just ramble on about that forever.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I could listen.

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[SPEAKER_01]: I would love that.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know where to start.

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[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, a couple of things to also consider is like there's such a lack of data throughout throughout the West, frankly.

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[SPEAKER_03]: California is ahead in a bunch of regards.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So for example, Florida does more prescribed burning than any other state.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Probably all of them combine, frankly, they burn constantly and there's not much data coming out of it.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we do have some

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[SPEAKER_03]: you know what you're referring to as little green flames on the map.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We definitely do have a lot of that data from those areas, but you know this is a very fractured country and it's very much state-driven, right?

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[SPEAKER_03]: So some states don't report that data up to the federal energy fire center so it never makes it into those maps and so we have to go state-to-state to get that data.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we have direct data from states like Washington and Arizona and some others in California.

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[SPEAKER_03]: And so we have to go collate that data.

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[SPEAKER_03]: So we're constantly scraping and mining.

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[SPEAKER_03]: We have apparatus that's always running, pulling that data in.

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[SPEAKER_03]: But there's 50 different states.

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[SPEAKER_03]: Some states don't even have any data.

19:01.535 --> 19:02.637
[SPEAKER_03]: Some do, some don't.

19:02.677 --> 19:05.343
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's just a never-ending endeavor here.

19:05.524 --> 19:06.927
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll never be finished.

19:06.907 --> 19:09.271
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a constant collating process.

19:09.411 --> 19:14.779
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why you do and don't see green flames in some areas.

19:14.799 --> 19:19.186
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the truth is that in the land of the blind, that one man is king, right?

19:19.206 --> 19:21.469
[SPEAKER_03]: Just because we can see more, it doesn't mean we see everything.

19:21.529 --> 19:24.013
[SPEAKER_03]: And so there's caveats all of this.

19:24.233 --> 19:33.387
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a huge data gathering exercise that is happening 24 hours a day with not only machinery, computers, but also people.

19:33.586 --> 19:37.430
[SPEAKER_01]: So John Florida does not report all of their prescribed burns.

19:37.970 --> 19:38.731
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't.

19:38.751 --> 19:41.053
[SPEAKER_03]: Nobody does, not even California does, right?

19:41.173 --> 19:42.575
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, there's just, there's not no that work.

19:42.595 --> 19:46.619
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's use California, for example, we both live in Centaur County, right?

19:46.699 --> 20:00.332
[SPEAKER_03]: When I'm burning on my land, so if I'm doing what they call a broadcast burn, you have to get a much bigger permit for that, and that will make it up into what's called the P4 system, which is run by Carb, California air emissions board.

20:00.412 --> 20:01.213
[SPEAKER_03]: But,

20:01.193 --> 20:07.423
[SPEAKER_03]: If I'm doing a simple agricultural burn, like I just did the other day, I'm burning dozens of piles of slash.

20:07.804 --> 20:11.790
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what that slash is from is from thinning my forest around my house.

20:11.850 --> 20:13.132
[SPEAKER_03]: I have too much land to manage.

20:13.653 --> 20:16.938
[SPEAKER_03]: I manage as much as I can, but I try and clear things around my property.

20:16.998 --> 20:20.063
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we cut and limb the lower branches.

20:20.043 --> 20:22.006
[SPEAKER_03]: We clear the forest, you can see through it.

20:22.126 --> 20:32.162
[SPEAKER_03]: So when the fire does pass, it will just burn the grass and not burn the trees, but all those piles, all those that slash gets put into 4x4x4 piles.

20:32.703 --> 20:37.370
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I make a phone call that morning to an automated hotline.

20:38.292 --> 20:39.313
[SPEAKER_03]: No one answers usually.

20:39.353 --> 20:42.378
[SPEAKER_03]: You leave a voice mail and you say, I live at this address, here's my phone number.

20:42.599 --> 20:43.560
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm lighting a fire.

20:44.081 --> 20:46.084
[SPEAKER_03]: That never makes it into a database.

20:46.064 --> 20:48.910
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're still going to smell that fire.

20:48.950 --> 20:52.678
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm burning like a couple tons of timber.

20:52.718 --> 20:54.903
[SPEAKER_03]: And it puts up a lot of smoke.

20:54.923 --> 20:56.306
[SPEAKER_03]: That never makes it onto a map.

20:56.326 --> 20:58.029
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's just one county, right?

20:58.049 --> 21:00.094
[SPEAKER_03]: There's 3,500 counties in America.

21:00.134 --> 21:02.519
[SPEAKER_03]: So imagine this problem compounding.

21:02.699 --> 21:04.984
[SPEAKER_03]: There is no true data source.

21:04.964 --> 21:05.785
[SPEAKER_03]: for all of this.

21:05.845 --> 21:08.329
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's the reality of what we're living in.

21:08.569 --> 21:15.740
[SPEAKER_03]: The government is not necessarily known for great data unfortunately and this is not really a federal problem.

21:15.800 --> 21:18.784
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a local problem and a state problem as well.

21:18.904 --> 21:22.850
[SPEAKER_03]: So there is no true source for all of this information.

21:23.370 --> 21:24.752
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you let your neighbors know?

21:25.033 --> 21:25.794
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't they worry?

21:25.874 --> 21:27.917
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what do you do about that side of it?

21:28.302 --> 21:37.223
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, the reality is is I'll tell my neighbors just so they personally know, but someone driving down the road still might think it's a fire.

21:37.443 --> 21:38.787
[SPEAKER_03]: They'll call dispatch.

21:39.328 --> 21:44.881
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, 911 essentially, which gets the local dispatch, local dispatcher will look through that information.

21:44.961 --> 21:46.665
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how they do it, frankly.

21:46.645 --> 21:52.754
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if they go through the voicemail box or what they do, but essentially people will call in those fires, right?

21:53.074 --> 21:58.822
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's the dispatchers job to know not to call in reinforcements when that happens.

21:59.303 --> 22:09.818
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm frankly not sure how this is done and I do know for a fact that oftentimes resources do get dispatched to someone doing an agricultural burn in their property.

22:09.967 --> 22:31.992
[SPEAKER_01]: okay so i just learned something new and i live in this county we should be way ahead of everybody else too and in many ways we are way ahead but still um i had no idea that that was the case i appreciate that clarification a lot um can you talk about some of the barriers to innovation in this space um even though megafire is relatively new um crisis

22:32.579 --> 22:43.271
[SPEAKER_01]: we aren't always welcome in the innovation space or people get suspicious or they say especially for emergency responders, they may say like, no, no, that's not your lane to be in there.

22:43.331 --> 22:45.013
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you talk about that?

22:45.454 --> 22:50.940
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want everybody to know that like when I go to an event to your house or whatever, it's full of firefighters.

22:51.020 --> 22:52.782
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's not like your anti firefighter.

22:52.802 --> 22:54.084
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not anti John.

22:54.144 --> 22:55.205
[SPEAKER_01]: It's none of those things.

22:55.305 --> 22:57.928
[SPEAKER_01]: But can you talk about some of the, um,

22:57.908 --> 23:02.874
[SPEAKER_01]: Ways that you had to be brave and determined over the past five years to really get to this space.

23:03.555 --> 23:05.838
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, there's a, what do I have to begin?

23:05.938 --> 23:12.846
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, when you're, you know, doing something new, it's, it's very disruptive to people's way of life, right?

23:12.907 --> 23:16.050
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the firefighters love watch duty.

23:16.090 --> 23:16.751
[SPEAKER_03]: They all use it.

23:16.771 --> 23:18.033
[SPEAKER_03]: They tell their wife to use it.

23:18.213 --> 23:20.836
[SPEAKER_03]: It's in, it's in tankers, it's in dozers.

23:21.217 --> 23:22.639
[SPEAKER_03]: It's used everywhere, right?

23:22.679 --> 23:27.865
[SPEAKER_03]: The people who are fighting fire love watch duty.

23:27.845 --> 23:53.869
[SPEAKER_03]: top brass often in certain areas because frankly certain governments really love what we do and help us directly and some feel that that's their responsibility and frankly I don't disagree it is their responsibility but if you're not doing it I'm going to right and so I live here on the constant threat of fire and it has to happen this should have happened a long time ago I shouldn't have to be here right this is not a

23:54.997 --> 23:58.021
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a chip on my shoulder about it, I just want it to be solved.

23:58.281 --> 24:00.644
[SPEAKER_03]: So if it was solved, I'd be doing something else with my life.

24:00.724 --> 24:05.471
[SPEAKER_03]: I have other ambitions and other problems I want to solve, but this one directly affects me.

24:05.531 --> 24:06.552
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it has to happen.

24:06.612 --> 24:13.481
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, when you're doing something disruptive to use the parlance of our time, it's very hard to accept, right?

24:13.521 --> 24:19.168
[SPEAKER_03]: So think about any technology that is challenging the status quo, right?

24:19.188 --> 24:20.430
[SPEAKER_03]: So imagine,

24:20.410 --> 24:28.028
[SPEAKER_03]: It's 2015 and you're a New York City taxi driver holding a medallion that you've paid a million dollars for.

24:28.108 --> 24:30.173
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what do you think you're going to say with Uber shows up?

24:31.055 --> 24:38.773
[SPEAKER_03]: Obviously you're upset and I do feel bad for those individuals, but the system needs to get better, just because

24:38.753 --> 24:47.493
[SPEAKER_03]: That was the way things worked, and people either profited on it or that was their purview like we have to look forward into the future.

24:47.533 --> 24:54.670
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not acceptable to have fires next to my house and not being notified about it.

24:54.650 --> 24:59.941
[SPEAKER_03]: There's this misnomer about what we do, but also about this idea of megafire, right?

24:59.961 --> 25:01.645
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care if it's a megafire or not.

25:01.885 --> 25:04.871
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a three-acre fire next to my house burning towards my house.

25:05.373 --> 25:06.315
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care how big it is.

25:06.715 --> 25:08.900
[SPEAKER_03]: That's my local disaster, right?

25:08.920 --> 25:10.363
[SPEAKER_03]: There's this, there's this,

25:10.343 --> 25:21.070
[SPEAKER_03]: mistake that people make about it that I think is really important to clarify and now we're getting fast-moving fires like the martial fire in Colorado is arguably not a megafire.

25:21.592 --> 25:26.023
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a fast-moving grass fire that burned like 900 homes in less than 24 hours.

25:26.003 --> 25:26.364
[SPEAKER_01]: 118.

25:26.384 --> 25:28.468
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but it did turn into urban conflagration, though.

25:28.488 --> 25:30.813
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I, there's a video of the grass fires move really fast regardless, but it was a high wind event.

25:30.833 --> 25:44.282
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we're talking about magnifiers, we're talking about when you bring together high wind events, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel, fuel,

25:44.262 --> 26:11.822
[SPEAKER_01]: fire and then when it's especially when it moves into massive amounts like 2 million acres in a couple of days like we've seen in Oklahoma and we've seen that in Texas too so we still consider that a megafire but it's the outsized damage on the environment and homes and so in the martial fire yet they had not had rain for 10 months and then the next day it may have still gone on they had a cyclone snowball.

26:12.022 --> 26:13.504
[SPEAKER_01]: and that's what ended up putting it out.

26:13.985 --> 26:26.506
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, again, back to my point, like if there's a, you know, what I should have saw the other day, there was an escaped agricultural burn here in Petaluma, right next to someone's barn that almost burned their barn now.

26:27.067 --> 26:28.730
[SPEAKER_03]: That is mega to them, right?

26:28.830 --> 26:37.725
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I don't do well with labels in general, frankly, because like this is what the argument is oftentimes for

26:38.836 --> 26:39.938
[SPEAKER_03]: for why watch duty?

26:39.978 --> 26:52.555
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, maybe shouldn't exist because some of these fires are so small that they don't want to send in alert to the whole county, but that might affect four homes or one ranch, like I need to know about that.

26:52.675 --> 26:56.120
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we don't classify or quantify them.

26:56.360 --> 27:00.145
[SPEAKER_03]: We just say this fire is here and it's moving in this direction.

27:00.265 --> 27:03.730
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you're in the way, that's a life and death situation.

27:03.810 --> 27:08.016
[SPEAKER_03]: That might be your livelihood, that might be your child at home, that might be your ranch.

27:07.996 --> 27:13.532
[SPEAKER_03]: This is extremely dangerous and very important that everybody knows what is happening.

27:13.593 --> 27:17.324
[SPEAKER_03]: So, watch Judy doesn't make any of these claims.

27:17.404 --> 27:22.258
[SPEAKER_03]: We just say there's a veg fire and it's on the move and that's how I think about this.

27:22.677 --> 27:34.521
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's why it comms our nervous system down or tells us it informs it actually gives agency to normal human beings trying to live their lives in areas with massive peril that's coming at us.

27:34.561 --> 27:40.914
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we have an idea, including like wind shift, where it is, what you expect to be how much contained.

27:41.495 --> 27:43.960
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, once you've been doing it for a while, then you

27:43.940 --> 27:55.823
[SPEAKER_01]: I get pretty comfortable when they're around 18 to 20% contained and then I start to calm down about it, but until then, it does put you on alert, but you do feel like someone's watching over you.

28:03.413 --> 28:06.237
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for taking a minute for Kim on the street for that.

28:06.678 --> 28:11.745
[SPEAKER_04]: How to disaster podcasts, Jennifer Thompson, our host has been here and she keeps raving about it.

28:11.805 --> 28:16.612
[SPEAKER_04]: So tell us, what is the reality center and what is your role in it?

28:16.632 --> 28:17.673
[SPEAKER_05]: I want you both to tell me.

28:17.953 --> 28:19.716
[SPEAKER_05]: Absolutely, well, thank you for having us.

28:20.076 --> 28:21.138
[SPEAKER_05]: My name's Turin Raj.

28:21.398 --> 28:23.702
[SPEAKER_05]: I'm co-founder and president at Reality Center.

28:23.742 --> 28:33.235
[SPEAKER_05]: We're a sensory wellness center and we focus on helping people we set their

28:33.215 --> 28:35.219
[SPEAKER_04]: And what is your specialty?

28:35.881 --> 28:39.890
[SPEAKER_04]: You are a tech mind-body kind of person?

28:40.651 --> 28:41.553
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, basically.

28:42.195 --> 28:49.671
[SPEAKER_05]: Come from the background of technology and also Eastern healing on a rakey master have been doing this work for about 20 years and

28:50.140 --> 29:06.124
[SPEAKER_05]: This type of experience in technology was a unique way to combine a lot of the things that had been working on, which is music, visuals, immersive experiences, combined with the traditional modalities that come from ancient knowledge, like vibration.

29:06.323 --> 29:14.360
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is a beautiful way to address that for the modern times and provide something that everybody can get access to.

29:14.681 --> 29:15.402
[SPEAKER_04]: Bridge, the gap.

29:15.943 --> 29:17.847
[SPEAKER_04]: And Typhine, what's your role here?

29:18.268 --> 29:19.471
[SPEAKER_06]: I am one of the co-founders.

29:20.212 --> 29:22.577
[SPEAKER_06]: And I run operations here at Reality Center.

29:22.861 --> 29:25.285
[SPEAKER_06]: What's your back on that brought you to something like this?

29:25.585 --> 29:26.346
[SPEAKER_06]: I'll become that veteran.

29:26.707 --> 29:29.371
[SPEAKER_06]: And so I spent a lot of time trying to find myself.

29:29.691 --> 29:30.893
[SPEAKER_06]: That there we got back in my rack.

29:31.514 --> 29:36.541
[SPEAKER_06]: Me and Turin experienced a questionary and therapy program with some of my other veteran friends.

29:36.621 --> 29:41.829
[SPEAKER_06]: It was like the first time that me personally, I've been to everything like structure of the wellness experience.

29:41.849 --> 29:44.413
[SPEAKER_06]: Oh, and first time I felt like there really...

29:44.393 --> 29:49.179
[SPEAKER_06]: big power of community, you know, seeing guys I haven't seen in 15 years, they're like my brothers.

29:50.321 --> 29:53.204
[SPEAKER_06]: Then using this thousand pound horses, a tool to help you heal.

29:53.465 --> 29:54.486
[SPEAKER_06]: Isn't it wonderful?

29:54.586 --> 30:00.194
[SPEAKER_06]: And as Truman said, he's comes from Eastern, better send and, and Ann and Western medicine background is dead.

30:00.254 --> 30:02.396
[SPEAKER_06]: It's a really successful doctor.

30:03.017 --> 30:04.499
[SPEAKER_06]: And he's sort of went the other way.

30:04.599 --> 30:05.561
[SPEAKER_06]: Another more Eastern.

30:05.941 --> 30:06.722
[SPEAKER_06]: I slowly got.

30:06.702 --> 30:17.036
[SPEAKER_06]: roped in, there's some rakey one time, and then some psychedelic experiences that lend you a little bit deeper into that story, which led us to creating the reality center.

30:17.677 --> 30:21.442
[SPEAKER_04]: So, can you explain Jonathan some of the science behind this?

30:21.502 --> 30:27.950
[SPEAKER_04]: Because, you know, people do make fun of California's, the home of fruits and nuts, and, of course, something woo woo would come from here.

30:28.431 --> 30:31.495
[SPEAKER_04]: But can you tell us why it is science?

30:32.453 --> 30:49.476
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so when our partner, Don Esteece, created this technology, he sort of comes from the Eleneige of all the greats, the guys that were synthesized in LSD and creating all this sort of century experiences of sort of off of that, and this technology been developed for over 30 years.

30:50.217 --> 30:52.200
[SPEAKER_06]: We ran thousands of thousands of people.

30:52.180 --> 30:58.068
[SPEAKER_06]: And so about the technology part, a lot of this stuff is very proprietary, it's patented.

30:58.589 --> 31:09.885
[SPEAKER_06]: Now we just got our last two years of data set back validating what we're doing in the better in communities specifically, raising overall wellness about 25% after just one one-hour session.

31:10.466 --> 31:15.032
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this like a weekly, a monthly, if you could help someone that was going through trauma?

31:15.248 --> 31:32.278
[SPEAKER_05]: We like to use the analogy of working out and not going to get a six back in a day, and so it's to address trauma that you may have had since your child or may come from a very powerful experience like the fires, for example.

31:32.393 --> 31:47.027
[SPEAKER_05]: It will take time, but what we do notice is that when your nervous system is really heightened when you're in that fight or fly sympathetic, usually the first session has the most profound effect because it synchronizes your senses.

31:47.067 --> 31:50.335
[SPEAKER_05]: A lot of things get out of order.

31:51.125 --> 31:56.792
[SPEAKER_05]: When you're in that stretch will stay your responses, your mind, your body just doesn't feel in alignment.

31:57.112 --> 32:04.542
[SPEAKER_05]: And so what we do is something called sensory resonance where we use the light, the sound, the vibration, to connect your senses back together.

32:04.602 --> 32:06.244
[SPEAKER_05]: Because that's how we experience the world.

32:06.264 --> 32:08.707
[SPEAKER_05]: It's through our bodies and through our mind.

32:09.147 --> 32:12.812
[SPEAKER_05]: And so when the body is at rest, when it feels safe,

32:13.062 --> 32:18.036
[SPEAKER_05]: Then the mind can do what it needs to do, communicate with the subconscious, heal yourself.

32:18.517 --> 32:26.599
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're really here to do is to unlock people's healing powers, some may can really become the medicine.

32:26.765 --> 32:30.250
[SPEAKER_04]: So they sort of deep-frag their own mind, right, mind and body.

32:30.270 --> 32:30.591
[SPEAKER_04]: Basically.

32:30.891 --> 32:35.578
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me ask you, Jonathan, what are the services that I could experience here?

32:36.098 --> 32:38.181
[SPEAKER_06]: Yeah, so we have two different form factors.

32:38.522 --> 32:49.718
[SPEAKER_06]: We have the library sounds back here that are like a massage table, and might sound of vibration don't end, and we have a flagship device, which is called the wave table, which is more like a float tank, but with your clothes on with it.

32:49.698 --> 32:55.914
[SPEAKER_06]: Now, bigger speakers and transducers built into it, so a little bit more deeper of an experience sometimes.

32:56.055 --> 32:58.602
[SPEAKER_04]: And also, you do couples and you do groups.

32:58.802 --> 33:00.687
[SPEAKER_04]: Why did you decide to offer that?

33:01.240 --> 33:04.965
[SPEAKER_06]: It's cold to come in here and do the wave table, which you experience by yourself.

33:05.205 --> 33:06.827
[SPEAKER_06]: It's almost even better coming with a group.

33:07.648 --> 33:13.316
[SPEAKER_06]: And having the ideas bounce off, one person might have went to sleep, the other person's sitting next to God.

33:13.576 --> 33:23.870
[SPEAKER_06]: And you get to hear the gradient of that story, each time when the veterans come in here, we bring them six at a time, two people go into the couple's room, four people go in out here.

33:24.390 --> 33:26.633
[SPEAKER_06]: And we run them at the same time, we finish at the same time.

33:26.673 --> 33:30.218
[SPEAKER_06]: And it's around six people doing integration at the same time.

33:30.653 --> 33:36.621
[SPEAKER_04]: What are some of the specific benefits to people that have been to the fire and also have another trauma?

33:36.641 --> 33:39.926
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe they're getting cancer treatment, maybe they are getting divorced.

33:40.326 --> 33:43.311
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, what are the specific benefits?

33:43.331 --> 33:50.581
[SPEAKER_05]: One of the most powerful things about psychedelics and this hub of experience is the intramy into what's called the Theta Brain Wave State.

33:51.742 --> 33:55.227
[SPEAKER_05]: That's what we're dreaming, or if you're a advanced meditator.

33:55.358 --> 34:04.768
[SPEAKER_05]: when we wake up in the morning before we fully get our cognition and focus or as we're going to bed before we fall into deep sleep.

34:05.849 --> 34:11.675
[SPEAKER_05]: That's where the subconscious mind is really engaged and it can communicate with your conscious mind.

34:12.836 --> 34:20.404
[SPEAKER_05]: So a lot of what we do here is it help people achieve those advanced meditation states without having any practice.

34:20.553 --> 34:24.739
[SPEAKER_05]: Now, one thing I want to say is that you thought about quitting, but you didn't.

34:25.119 --> 34:25.239
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.

34:25.920 --> 34:31.127
[SPEAKER_05]: And that resilience that you gain is what you take into your life.

34:32.028 --> 34:43.483
[SPEAKER_05]: And when something comes at you, triggers you, creates that defensive or nervous system response that maybe you would normally be like, oh, I can't deal with this.

34:44.605 --> 34:47.168
[SPEAKER_05]: You're able to practice in a safe environment.

34:48.160 --> 34:55.454
[SPEAKER_05]: Moving through something that is new, uncomfortable for a moment and breathe through it.

34:56.035 --> 35:08.059
[SPEAKER_05]: Move through it, and I think that's one of the reasons we see such massive changes with people is because they're actually facing something and they're able to move through it.

35:09.170 --> 35:14.989
[SPEAKER_05]: with the groups that have peers and you have people around you that are supporting that journey.

35:15.831 --> 35:20.125
[SPEAKER_05]: And because you are in this subconscious entrainment.

35:21.455 --> 35:23.419
[SPEAKER_05]: you can rewire your own patterns.

35:23.961 --> 35:39.396
[SPEAKER_05]: You can tell yourself your own stories and change your mind very fast in comparison to some of these other things because as we spoke about amplifying the positive as opposed to focusing on the negative, allows you to move through that because there's always so much room

35:39.376 --> 35:40.017
[SPEAKER_05]: in your mind.

35:40.037 --> 35:58.093
[SPEAKER_05]: There's only so much time in the day if you replace some of those negative thoughts with the things that you want to do, you think about them as actually being done, you can create that vibration because what we do here is really about helping tune your vibration and this technology is just a resource to accelerate that.

35:58.208 --> 36:12.128
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Jonathan, I want to tell you, you humble me because I, as I told you, had a rough day today because we're selling our house and goodbye goodbye and the city's melted and ours was talk that it's been a year and four months.

36:13.470 --> 36:20.701
[SPEAKER_04]: Combat veterans, how many years can it be that they're still experiencing trauma and how can someone think it's okay?

36:20.801 --> 36:22.984
[SPEAKER_04]: It's been a while I can still treat my stuff.

36:23.875 --> 36:25.317
[SPEAKER_06]: Our guys are still killing themselves.

36:25.637 --> 36:27.979
[SPEAKER_06]: We got, we went to Iraq in 2007 to 2008.

36:27.999 --> 36:39.832
[SPEAKER_06]: And there are 15 years later, so can it, so it's like, and some of us, what you get with the military, you know, and just like when you, the fires happen, everybody just scatters, yeah, right to the wind.

36:40.493 --> 36:43.195
[SPEAKER_06]: And you lose track of things, you can get in your normal groove in your life.

36:43.275 --> 36:45.458
[SPEAKER_06]: And for me, I moved out to Hollywood.

36:46.138 --> 36:50.423
[SPEAKER_06]: Great, I just sort of forgot about taking care of myself a little bit.

36:50.555 --> 36:56.471
[SPEAKER_06]: And for God about putting myself to those experiences, for God about connecting the people in my unit a little bit.

36:56.491 --> 37:00.162
[SPEAKER_06]: When I came out here, I just put my head down, he's working, trying to build my career.

37:00.222 --> 37:01.425
[SPEAKER_06]: He has to out here to survive.

37:01.666 --> 37:02.809
[SPEAKER_06]: You got that right.

37:03.059 --> 37:14.033
[SPEAKER_06]: And so what makes us so similar to people that lost their homes and really for us on a global scale when COVID happened, we are very active.

37:14.153 --> 37:21.162
[SPEAKER_06]: So that's when a lot of our work from working with veterans started opening up to other demographics of people.

37:21.323 --> 37:23.265
[SPEAKER_06]: So now we're working with that risk use.

37:24.006 --> 37:31.716
[SPEAKER_06]: Formally incarcerated, people that lost their homes in the fires, police, all the local police and fire veterans, to, you know,

37:31.696 --> 37:33.398
[SPEAKER_06]: biohapers and people that have trauma.

37:33.839 --> 37:34.700
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a wonderful thing.

37:34.740 --> 37:38.024
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for taking a minute for Kim on the street for that.

37:38.045 --> 37:39.446
[SPEAKER_04]: How to disaster podcasts?

37:39.727 --> 37:40.668
[SPEAKER_05]: Thank you for having us.

37:48.298 --> 37:49.840
[SPEAKER_01]: How did you come up with the name, by the way?

37:50.221 --> 37:52.003
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the name, but how did you come up with it?

37:52.504 --> 37:55.348
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I mean, it comes from a military term.

37:55.388 --> 38:00.775
[SPEAKER_03]: One of our early founding teammates is a

38:02.071 --> 38:05.517
[SPEAKER_03]: He's up in a Cobb area, like County Lower Lake, I believe.

38:05.657 --> 38:10.986
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, there are times where, you know, there are people on watch, right?

38:11.006 --> 38:11.928
[SPEAKER_03]: They're on watch duty.

38:12.128 --> 38:13.811
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that's their job.

38:13.831 --> 38:18.078
[SPEAKER_03]: This is stay up at night, you know, looking after these fires, or whatever it may be.

38:18.259 --> 38:21.885
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, look, I think it's important to like, also recognize it like,

38:21.865 --> 38:27.592
[SPEAKER_03]: Containment's also a very, you know, scary number, like 18% is not poking asleep at night.

38:27.753 --> 38:33.900
[SPEAKER_03]: 18% can mean that the heel the fire is contained and it's still burning in some directions.

38:34.021 --> 38:36.584
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't really look at containment.

38:36.624 --> 38:40.048
[SPEAKER_03]: I look at the wind, I read the reports on watch duty.

38:40.068 --> 38:44.114
[SPEAKER_03]: It's that that number, I think, is a false sense of hope at times.

38:44.154 --> 38:45.275
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we'll see it later.

38:46.056 --> 38:48.379
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't kill my vibe here, John.

38:48.359 --> 39:06.351
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just going to put the truth out there for people might think it's okay because it's 18% contained but if you look at a map and you know there are black lines and red lines around a from an official map around a fire you'll see the heel which is where the fire starts

39:06.331 --> 39:12.878
[SPEAKER_03]: has black line around it, meaning that end is contained, but it could still be whipping through a community with 18% containment.

39:12.958 --> 39:25.771
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's really important that people read the maps, read the reports, and understand what's actually going on, because we're telling a story, a story line of events from ignition to last-engine leaving about what is happening.

39:26.032 --> 39:31.257
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't really, I don't go to sleep until it's much more contained.

39:31.317 --> 39:36.102
[SPEAKER_03]: I know it's not going my direction, it's not burning through a community.

39:36.082 --> 39:54.006
[SPEAKER_03]: it's a very volatile situation that winds can shift fires aren't sitting down a night like they used to do they used to make a lot of progress at night and we get a lot of relative humidity restoring uh... and allowing them to get control of a fire but as we've seen over the past many years especially in these these larger mega fires

39:53.986 --> 40:06.780
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they're not getting as much progress as they used to, unfortunately, and so it's pretty wild to watch fire behavior look different over the past 10 years than it did over the past 100.

40:06.946 --> 40:33.544
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the whole reason why we have to exist and I would be fine if after the fire did not exist and the problem was solved and we had relative humidity coming up at night and fire is slowing down but for so nobody take my advice on the 18% I can hear you I will not I will not see that is a safety anymore I was deluding myself because I I've just been in so many of these now that I was looking for some indicator fair.

40:33.524 --> 40:40.755
[SPEAKER_01]: And the LA fires and the palaces in particular, the fire went all the way down to the ocean and then blew back.

40:40.775 --> 40:44.702
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think I do think of it as a bit of a fire monster for sure.

40:44.722 --> 40:48.027
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can appreciate that.

40:48.067 --> 40:51.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about the game changer that was the LA fires for you?

40:51.833 --> 41:04.389
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, people look at us like the L.A. fires is what put us on the map, but if you go up to Siskiu County, you know, before the fires happen, I mean, we have more subscribers than residents in that county.

41:04.609 --> 41:10.296
[SPEAKER_03]: So for the rest of us who live in the wildland forest, I mean, this is a way of life for years.

41:10.376 --> 41:12.038
[SPEAKER_03]: This is this is not new for us.

41:12.339 --> 41:17.145
[SPEAKER_03]: It became different when the world turned into attention to L.A., right?

41:17.165 --> 41:18.246
[SPEAKER_03]: That's because

41:18.226 --> 41:22.310
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of the pinnacles of the world if till the New York, they're not going to like it.

41:22.350 --> 41:26.173
[SPEAKER_03]: But there are certain cities that everyone has their eyes on.

41:26.213 --> 41:39.405
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that definitely was one of the worst fires we've covered in terms of structure loss and it affects a large population, you know, two very large communities were affected.

41:39.465 --> 41:48.233
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that was a very long set of campaign fires.

41:48.213 --> 41:54.106
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, the world had their eyes on us and then all the other infrastructure was failing, which made it even worse, right?

41:54.126 --> 41:58.677
[SPEAKER_03]: There were three false alerts that got sent out by other government and contract and systems.

41:59.439 --> 42:01.162
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, California's website crashed.

42:01.243 --> 42:07.116
[SPEAKER_03]: Many other websites were not working and crashing, and we were the only sorts of information that was actually staying up.

42:07.096 --> 42:16.947
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I think that's what really put us on the map, frankly, is the fact that there are so many structures and people threaten by it that it really brought the attention to the world.

42:16.967 --> 42:19.630
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, go in these rural communities, right?

42:19.710 --> 42:21.232
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone lives on watch duty.

42:21.312 --> 42:22.793
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been a thing for a long time.

42:22.874 --> 42:26.758
[SPEAKER_03]: So while I'm proud we were there, the mission's always been the same.

42:27.038 --> 42:28.740
[SPEAKER_03]: Nothing changed because of that event.

42:28.760 --> 42:31.824
[SPEAKER_03]: We learned from what we do in those events.

42:31.884 --> 42:35.888
[SPEAKER_03]: We do after action reports, and we learn how to get better and better,

42:35.868 --> 42:37.270
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we're here for, right?

42:37.290 --> 42:38.572
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the disaster business.

42:38.892 --> 42:41.716
[SPEAKER_03]: And when disaster happens, we jump into action.

42:41.756 --> 42:51.049
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, you know, it wasn't till like at least a month after, we could actually get some rest and even do our own internal after action reports and review what we did, what we could have done better.

42:52.171 --> 42:59.361
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's tragic that that brought us drop a world of attention to us, but to us, the mission has always been this game.

42:59.476 --> 43:01.000
[SPEAKER_01]: So totally acknowledge that.

43:01.201 --> 43:01.642
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it.

43:01.963 --> 43:03.046
[SPEAKER_01]: Our mission is the same too.

43:03.126 --> 43:11.389
[SPEAKER_01]: We walk into every fire can be in Plumis County, the Dixie fire, and that was a thousand homes, but for them it was devastating.

43:11.429 --> 43:14.498
[SPEAKER_01]: They lost their entire town of Greenville, and

43:14.478 --> 43:32.942
[SPEAKER_01]: in the real communities in particular they don't get all the resources and all the attention that they actually need want and deserve and it's one of the things that we carry in our hearts every day and we walk through this work but the thing that it was good or as somebody who you know has been.

43:32.922 --> 43:40.633
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm from the same county, but I've been using it for years, and it's made a massive difference in our work, and I'm in my life for sure my personal life.

43:41.033 --> 43:51.167
[SPEAKER_01]: But to see you actually have to scale to that extent, really with that many, how many, how many users did you gain just during the LA fires?

43:51.400 --> 43:57.453
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, when the LA fire started in that county, we had like maybe 100,000 subscribers.

43:57.513 --> 44:05.430
[SPEAKER_03]: When we were done, it was a 2.5 million, which was a quarter of LA county was all on watch duty within a matter of days.

44:05.570 --> 44:07.695
[SPEAKER_03]: So it did scale very fast.

44:08.056 --> 44:09.318
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a harrowing situation.

44:09.378 --> 44:10.641
[SPEAKER_03]: We had only

44:11.313 --> 44:13.396
[SPEAKER_03]: Man, only a handful of reporters at that time.

44:13.436 --> 44:14.697
[SPEAKER_03]: We only had four engineers.

44:14.838 --> 44:16.640
[SPEAKER_03]: And so everyone was sleeping in shifts.

44:16.800 --> 44:20.105
[SPEAKER_03]: We were calling in favors from all of our providers.

44:20.245 --> 44:23.209
[SPEAKER_03]: Like Google is one of our bigger donors and providers.

44:23.249 --> 44:24.610
[SPEAKER_03]: We were making phone calls to them.

44:24.650 --> 44:29.116
[SPEAKER_03]: Amazon, facely, and all the people who keep our infrastructure are apps.

44:29.136 --> 44:30.418
[SPEAKER_03]: So we were,

44:30.618 --> 44:32.280
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll never forget making a phone call.

44:32.301 --> 44:34.724
[SPEAKER_03]: It may be 10 o'clock at night on Friday.

44:34.764 --> 44:36.266
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a couple days into the fire.

44:36.367 --> 44:38.770
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were sending billions of notifications.

44:39.371 --> 44:40.573
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were hitting rate limits.

44:41.174 --> 44:45.140
[SPEAKER_03]: I was calling in favors from executives that I had known for my career in Silicon Valley.

44:45.160 --> 44:49.887
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was a, it was a hair-hwing experience for everybody involved.

44:49.907 --> 44:55.495
[SPEAKER_03]: And somehow, we did not have any downtime during that situation.

44:55.677 --> 45:05.253
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that I also liked about it is I felt like all of a sudden the rest of the world there, because LA is, you know, attention is the highest commodity in Los Angeles.

45:05.553 --> 45:06.314
[SPEAKER_01]: People watch it.

45:06.635 --> 45:10.902
[SPEAKER_01]: They are storytellers, their creators, their directors.

45:10.882 --> 45:13.467
[SPEAKER_01]: And it doesn't matter if you're working at Starbucks.

45:13.507 --> 45:16.713
[SPEAKER_01]: You still, if you are attracted to LA and that's your chosen place.

45:16.733 --> 45:21.722
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just part of the personality of the entire culture there in both fires.

45:21.762 --> 45:30.257
[SPEAKER_01]: We find that to be true, but I felt like it from watching the amount of attention and the amount of appreciation to

45:30.237 --> 45:34.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And it felt like you broke a barrier with L.A. that was previously there.

45:34.924 --> 45:45.742
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it was nice, is can you talk about, I know that you're not a big alkali person, but can you just talk about some of the alkali, including your TED talks that we can direct people to with the link?

45:45.762 --> 45:48.346
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, again, you know, it's not why we do this.

45:49.007 --> 45:50.269
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, I know that.

45:50.349 --> 45:53.494
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just trying to give people the idea of it, John.

45:53.727 --> 45:55.089
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know, I hear you.

45:55.249 --> 46:00.736
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, look, this is one of these things that we were always getting love letters for what we've done.

46:00.776 --> 46:10.088
[SPEAKER_03]: We get letters from tanker pilots and dozer operators and civilians who were able to save themselves, their neighbors, their cats, their community.

46:10.148 --> 46:16.095
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's a very busy time when that happens because there's so much attention on it.

46:16.115 --> 46:17.457
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we're getting

46:17.437 --> 46:29.493
[SPEAKER_03]: hundreds and hundreds of emails an hour from people who find safety and tell us that we helped them save their lives, their families, their neighbors, their pets, their community and it's it's an honor to do it.

46:29.754 --> 46:30.737
[SPEAKER_03]: It's um...

46:31.055 --> 46:33.679
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bittersweet when that happens, right?

46:33.779 --> 46:36.944
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we love to be of service and that's why we do this.

46:37.064 --> 46:43.894
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just so hard to see these messages that we get, knowing what they just went through.

46:43.954 --> 46:46.357
[SPEAKER_03]: And now how scarred they are from their experience.

46:46.417 --> 46:51.004
[SPEAKER_03]: And so again, to your point earlier, now this smell smoke, and everyone turns to watch duty.

46:51.024 --> 46:52.406
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're worried what it is.

46:52.466 --> 46:53.408
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it a prescribed fire?

46:53.488 --> 46:54.069
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it real?

46:55.350 --> 46:56.472
[SPEAKER_03]: It's

46:56.452 --> 47:08.723
[SPEAKER_03]: It's hard, it's hard to save, but again, it's an honor to be able to do something and be of service because as we know, at the internet nowadays, people jump online and just start blaming people.

47:08.783 --> 47:10.764
[SPEAKER_03]: And like, man, people's hardware is still on fire.

47:10.925 --> 47:15.288
[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, they're angry, and I understand that, but it's really hard to see.

47:15.408 --> 47:18.931
[SPEAKER_03]: And the misinformation that flies around is really tough.

47:19.012 --> 47:26.458
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, these fires were pretty tragic, and there's a lot of blame being passed around.

47:26.438 --> 47:28.501
[SPEAKER_03]: feeling at a different signature.

47:28.562 --> 47:37.917
[SPEAKER_03]: The Palisades in particular there's a lot of angry people who have not experienced fire before but if you go a couple canyons over in Malibu, I mean they're used to this.

47:37.977 --> 47:40.201
[SPEAKER_03]: This happens every five six years.

47:40.241 --> 47:44.228
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a big one and so they're more prepared for it but

47:44.512 --> 47:50.186
[SPEAKER_03]: It's been hard to honestly watch and follow up and we're on to the next fire and the next fire.

47:50.226 --> 47:54.758
[SPEAKER_03]: We have to be there to respond to the next one and so we don't get involved in the blame game.

47:54.798 --> 47:56.021
[SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't help anybody.

47:56.061 --> 47:58.086
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not our investigators.

47:58.106 --> 47:59.770
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not what we do.

47:59.750 --> 48:02.656
[SPEAKER_03]: People do send us messages, who did it, why they do it?

48:02.716 --> 48:04.781
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm like, this is not what we're here for, man.

48:04.881 --> 48:05.863
[SPEAKER_03]: We're here for the response.

48:06.545 --> 48:07.727
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not the investigators.

48:08.569 --> 48:12.297
[SPEAKER_03]: We do have limits as to what we do and why we do it.

48:12.357 --> 48:14.923
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's something that we stay away from frankly.

48:15.038 --> 48:18.203
[SPEAKER_01]: I can appreciate that I wish that it would not enter into it at all.

48:18.223 --> 48:20.947
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of my greatest frustrations in doing.

48:21.028 --> 48:26.156
[SPEAKER_01]: I have to feel very honored to work in really the hardest time in a people's lives.

48:26.616 --> 48:27.638
[SPEAKER_01]: They've lost so much.

48:27.818 --> 48:29.421
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just their house, it's their home.

48:29.461 --> 48:31.003
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where they brought their babies home.

48:31.064 --> 48:33.267
[SPEAKER_01]: It's where all their memories are.

48:33.247 --> 48:40.220
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we also know with the long road to rebuilding is, and so I work on the other side of where you work.

48:40.260 --> 48:56.571
[SPEAKER_01]: And I appreciate that, but in the middle of it, it just seems to be getting worse with every fire, the amount of disinformation, like actual bots and actors who were just doing the very wrong thing, who are not involved at all, and they immediately want to go to the blame game.

48:56.551 --> 49:10.813
[SPEAKER_01]: You sort of hinted at it, but can you say anything more about the role of disinformation and why it's so, so important that we do have watch duty or to actually guide us through what's real, because so much of what's online is not real.

49:10.895 --> 49:28.836
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, what we do is it's pretty simple when you let it be, which is hard for people to understand sometimes, but all the reports in watch duty are coming from first responder radio traffic, coming from other governments who give us information.

49:28.816 --> 49:32.222
[SPEAKER_03]: Facebook and Twitter pages from those government agencies as well.

49:32.262 --> 49:36.850
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if you look at any of our reporting, it is all a series of facts, right?

49:37.170 --> 49:40.676
[SPEAKER_03]: And everything that we have is backed up and written down.

49:40.736 --> 49:42.800
[SPEAKER_03]: Every piece of radio traffic is recorded.

49:42.860 --> 49:45.484
[SPEAKER_03]: We store everything that we've ever done.

49:45.564 --> 49:47.528
[SPEAKER_03]: We have auto-locked everything we've ever done.

49:47.568 --> 49:50.132
[SPEAKER_03]: And it is important that we are

49:50.112 --> 50:18.870
[SPEAKER_03]: not journalists we are we are reporters in many regards right similar to how baseball is reported on right man steps up to the play ball set to the left you know outfield caught out thrown out at second right like that's a fact those are facts that like everyone's gonna report on and that's how news used to be frankly it wasn't editorialized so much and so you know we are talking back to the day is when we did just get a series of facts and you can go make that decision on your own

50:18.850 --> 50:19.211
[SPEAKER_03]: Right?

50:19.231 --> 50:26.461
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we went so far as to even, you know, we don't have comments, we don't have likes, we don't have any of this unwashed duty.

50:26.501 --> 50:33.591
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really a one way communication of fact, after fact, after fact delivered to your phone and you can make those decisions.

50:33.671 --> 50:36.516
[SPEAKER_03]: So the fire is here, the wind's going this direction.

50:36.596 --> 50:40.061
[SPEAKER_03]: It's burning over this ridge, the fire's spotting mile ahead of itself.

50:40.141 --> 50:48.553
[SPEAKER_03]: Whatever it may be, those are, those are all just facts.

50:48.533 --> 51:01.344
[SPEAKER_03]: based upon things that they know are true and that's really our highest honor is to just lay out a series of truths that people can then go make these hard life threatening decisions based upon.

51:01.624 --> 51:05.788
[SPEAKER_01]: When it gives people agency, that's what I like about it so much.

51:05.868 --> 51:18.118
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do it, but I have the information and then I can make the decisions from there and I'm not depending on Bob from Lompock, telling me on Facebook, something that's probably not true or wanting to engage

51:18.098 --> 51:31.965
[SPEAKER_01]: things that are just so not helpful like we don't we also do not get involved in the blame game because that's not our jobs because we're not our center we're not investigators we're recovery experts which is completely different role even when people try to drag us into it.

51:32.546 --> 51:37.997
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you talk about sort of the the future of watch studio what you're looking towards doing?

51:37.977 --> 51:42.402
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, watch Judy is, you know, I mean, the name doesn't have fire in it on purpose.

51:42.443 --> 51:52.595
[SPEAKER_03]: This isn't just about fire, soon we'll be launching our flooding program as well as other disasters after that, but people are dying without warning, unfortunately.

51:52.675 --> 51:54.578
[SPEAKER_03]: And that we just saw that in the carval floods.

51:54.638 --> 52:00.585
[SPEAKER_03]: Unfortunately, July 4th of 2025, and this is a constant threat.

52:00.665 --> 52:02.247
[SPEAKER_03]: And so whether it's

52:02.682 --> 52:06.467
[SPEAKER_03]: Fire, lava, water, who cares what it is, right?

52:06.588 --> 52:11.935
[SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter to the civilians and residents who live here, it's the same three questions.

52:12.015 --> 52:16.281
[SPEAKER_03]: It's am I safe, is my family safe, and where do I go, what do I do, right?

52:16.301 --> 52:18.204
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the questions that you always ask yourself.

52:18.264 --> 52:20.928
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not about fire, right?

52:20.948 --> 52:22.250
[SPEAKER_03]: It's about natural disaster.

52:22.370 --> 52:24.193
[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, it could also be unnatural.

52:24.273 --> 52:30.782
[SPEAKER_03]: We've done this before, and we're can continue to look into what this looks like at a larger scale.

52:30.762 --> 52:44.603
[SPEAKER_03]: when the Moss battery plant on the coast there in Monterey caught on fire, it was sending up deadly smoke plumes of horrible chemicals that issued evacuation orders.

52:44.743 --> 52:48.068
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we're also going to step in when that happens as well.

52:48.148 --> 52:53.136
[SPEAKER_03]: And so if people need to move because of an event, we want to be there.

52:53.597 --> 52:55.740
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the caveat is

52:55.720 --> 53:02.575
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not getting involved in police activity, we're not getting involved in shootings, we're not getting involved in things that are.

53:02.825 --> 53:25.963
[SPEAKER_03]: police driven quote unquote there's there's it's very dangerous we're ready doing dangerous work and frankly we're trying to fit and niche that no one else is solving and do that really well it's important us to stay in some lane and our lane is really about you know human disaster and that's really where we sit and that's our sweet spot

53:26.180 --> 53:53.571
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a good sweet spot and if for those of you who don't know or don't have it on your phone yet you should pull it up you should put it on your phone right now I was addressing a group of women in Brentwood a couple of weeks ago and they were really there an investment group and I specifically went there because I wanted to also talk to them about how to keep themselves safe and why some of the things they can do to harden their home and really because they were influencing the market as far as like

53:53.551 --> 53:56.037
[SPEAKER_01]: the rules and regulations at the state level.

53:56.217 --> 53:57.541
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to be on the ground.

53:57.901 --> 54:06.201
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the first things that I like to do and I do address a smaller group of people in particular as I ask them how many of you have watched duty on your phone.

54:06.221 --> 54:08.607
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to talk about agency

54:08.587 --> 54:34.241
[SPEAKER_01]: But we can do, like, and that the changes that we're going through in the increasing perils are not personal, but we do have personal agency and responsibility, and I did an interview the other day, and for somebody who's definitely on the side of thinking that all that believing in climate change are believing in perils is political, and it's not political, like the seed does not take you personally.

54:34.261 --> 54:35.843
[SPEAKER_01]: The seed exists.

54:35.823 --> 54:38.606
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and so we just have to see it like in that way.

54:38.626 --> 54:39.628
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not political.

54:39.688 --> 54:42.491
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just it's personal safety You can do this.

54:42.511 --> 54:48.078
[SPEAKER_01]: You can also see air quality all the things that we just need to make decisions So I appreciate that so much.

54:49.019 --> 54:56.148
[SPEAKER_01]: I You know the podcast is called how to disaster and so could you touch upon how doing this work has actually changed?

54:57.109 --> 55:01.054
[SPEAKER_01]: Your life Personally how you walk through the world and

55:01.034 --> 55:06.022
[SPEAKER_01]: any advice you have for people who have not yet undergone a disaster, but are curious about it.

55:06.643 --> 55:08.607
[SPEAKER_03]: My life changed before watch duty.

55:08.827 --> 55:21.569
[SPEAKER_03]: I experienced a handful of fires, some of which were extraordinarily close to my property and my hope, and so living in this environment changed my reality.

55:21.689 --> 55:25.455
[SPEAKER_03]: I had to, before I started to watch duty, I

55:25.435 --> 55:48.473
[SPEAKER_03]: I started hurting my home, I built rooftop sprinkler systems, I hardened my water systems, I already live off the grid, and so I already have unlimited power supply, and made sure that I could connect to the outside world, I got radio equipment, I started doing wild land fire training, it was extremely important to me before watch duty, you know, even became an idea in my head, and so

55:48.453 --> 56:15.372
[SPEAKER_03]: this is the reality we're living in right skies blue water is wet and so you know it doesn't matter how I vote federally locally fire is a equal opportunity to destroyer it takes from everybody equally and does not care about you whatsoever and it does not care about climate change whatever it is who cares why it's happening it is happening frankly i do care but that's not the point of this conversation is it's happening and going to happen so

56:15.352 --> 56:19.599
[SPEAKER_03]: trying to fight reality is a fool's errand, right?

56:19.659 --> 56:23.084
[SPEAKER_03]: Fire is such an incredible, destructive force.

56:23.645 --> 56:27.050
[SPEAKER_03]: And if you live in these areas, it's coming.

56:27.211 --> 56:32.579
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just a matter of when, not a matter of F. And so every year, I have to prepare.

56:32.779 --> 56:36.185
[SPEAKER_03]: This year is March 27th right now.

56:37.026 --> 56:38.929
[SPEAKER_03]: It is drying out earlier.

56:38.909 --> 57:00.175
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... the grass is a ready-turning uh... turning brown uh... it usually takes another month or two but it's happening earlier this year and as we've seen across the west especially the rocky mountain range uh... all the way from montana to new Mexico has record low snow packs it's drying out quickly we're ready seeing additions happening

57:00.155 --> 57:03.340
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a harrowing lawn is what it appears.

57:03.421 --> 57:05.364
[SPEAKER_03]: And so again, I have to prepare.

57:05.464 --> 57:12.416
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now I'm cutting back my bushes and hedges and getting it ready earlier than I normally do.

57:12.536 --> 57:14.419
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's just a fact.

57:14.499 --> 57:16.743
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no fighting reality.

57:16.763 --> 57:17.665
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to come.

57:17.745 --> 57:21.471
[SPEAKER_03]: And so am I prepared or not is the only question?

57:21.502 --> 57:21.822
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.

57:22.043 --> 57:23.304
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate that so much.

57:23.704 --> 57:36.076
[SPEAKER_01]: It also pierces the magical thinking piece of it too, which is really important because a lot of people just that they just wanted to deny it and they could just they they engage in magical thinking over and over again.

57:36.116 --> 57:47.087
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't even matter where their home is they could be in the middle of a national forest in California where we have we are historically a fire area and they think oh this could never happen here and I

57:47.067 --> 57:57.445
[SPEAKER_01]: encourage anyone to tell your family, friends, everybody should be downloading watch duty, but also looking around and figuring out how you can keep yourself safer.

57:57.485 --> 58:03.355
[SPEAKER_01]: It's upsetting to see those of the pushback on how to do home hardening.

58:03.335 --> 58:05.762
[SPEAKER_01]: And to just blame it on a failure of government.

58:05.782 --> 58:15.569
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not saying that government isn't a failure, but both and are something that we have to be able to hold at the same time as we're walking into an ever more perilous era.

58:15.670 --> 58:18.357
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I appreciate that so much.

58:18.337 --> 58:30.050
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, on the more personal level to have, um, courage to do something that is innovative that has not been done before, um, I have found for it to be a bit of a white knuckle.

58:30.350 --> 58:41.543
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I, I whiten knuckle my way through parts of it, but I know for sure that when it's the right thing to do, and so for somebody who's listening to this and they think that they have a really great idea, um, it can be, um,

58:41.523 --> 58:50.071
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be analog, it can be tech, it can be human-centric, whatever it is, like what advice would you give them about how to move forward in order to make the space better?

58:50.351 --> 58:51.592
[SPEAKER_03]: That's an entrepreneurial question.

58:51.652 --> 58:52.953
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a hard one to answer.

58:53.053 --> 58:56.076
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, not everyone has cut out for this work.

58:57.437 --> 59:03.263
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I've just been a risk-taker most of my life, and so it's in my DNA to do this.

59:03.363 --> 59:11.530
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't tell you why happened or how that happened,

59:11.510 --> 59:17.659
[SPEAKER_03]: If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space, is the mantra that I really appreciate.

59:17.880 --> 59:20.003
[SPEAKER_03]: And I like the thrill.

59:20.063 --> 59:23.007
[SPEAKER_03]: I like the excitement of doing this work.

59:23.108 --> 59:24.990
[SPEAKER_03]: I love hanging out with first responders.

59:25.050 --> 59:28.636
[SPEAKER_03]: I love being in this community and being of service.

59:28.716 --> 59:35.967
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I've got a lot of fulfillment personally from doing work like this, that makes a difference.

59:36.308 --> 59:38.631
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's just something beautiful about.

59:38.611 --> 59:44.823
[SPEAKER_03]: these communities especially ones who are really underprivileged and underserved which is where I started this in this first place.

59:44.863 --> 59:48.089
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't about L.A. celebrities in the houses on fire.

59:48.109 --> 01:00:00.653
[SPEAKER_03]: It was about people not getting what they need and I love filling a niche and avoid that that has to happen and so my only really advice is like it's really important to do customer development.

01:00:00.633 --> 01:00:03.537
[SPEAKER_03]: a lot of people don't do that very deeply.

01:00:03.597 --> 01:00:10.688
[SPEAKER_03]: They have a great idea and they just kind of go forth without really researching what came before them.

01:00:10.748 --> 01:00:12.090
[SPEAKER_03]: How did this happen?

01:00:12.310 --> 01:00:13.312
[SPEAKER_03]: How did we get here?

01:00:13.452 --> 01:00:16.997
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I needed to deeply understand why this problem existed.

01:00:17.538 --> 01:00:19.701
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't just go and solve a problem.

01:00:19.821 --> 01:00:24.308
[SPEAKER_03]: As I had mentioned earlier, you know, I had to convince myself this was actually a solution.

01:00:24.348 --> 01:00:27.012
[SPEAKER_03]: It took me three months or so to like,

01:00:27.329 --> 01:00:35.600
[SPEAKER_03]: realize that I'm not crazy, and that there was value to be made here, and I knew I could do it, but I didn't just jump into it.

01:00:35.801 --> 01:00:42.470
[SPEAKER_03]: And so through that customer development, I also find a lot of different storylines, right?

01:00:42.530 --> 01:00:47.416
[SPEAKER_03]: So if I asked any resident, if Washington was a great idea, they would say absolutely.

01:00:47.577 --> 01:00:52.644
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I asked many of the top brass in emergency management, if it was a good idea, they would say no.

01:00:52.684 --> 01:00:53.725
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a bad idea.

01:00:53.705 --> 01:00:59.696
[SPEAKER_03]: And so you really have to like shift the sort through what you're hearing to find the truth.

01:01:00.317 --> 01:01:02.881
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an age old quote from Henry Ford that I liked.

01:01:03.322 --> 01:01:07.830
[SPEAKER_03]: He said, if I asked my customers what they would have wanted, they would have set our faster horse.

01:01:08.631 --> 01:01:12.979
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's important for you as the entrepreneur to like,

01:01:12.959 --> 01:01:28.398
[SPEAKER_03]: hear what they want, not what they say, what they're saying is useful and it's from their experience, but I met incredible amounts of resistance when I started this from top brass at certain agencies that didn't want this to happen.

01:01:28.558 --> 01:01:29.601
[SPEAKER_03]: And then

01:01:29.581 --> 01:01:33.306
[SPEAKER_03]: I realized they didn't want it to happen because it threatens their way of life.

01:01:33.567 --> 01:01:34.949
[SPEAKER_03]: Or so they believe, right?

01:01:35.049 --> 01:01:35.850
[SPEAKER_03]: Because if I go other way.

01:01:35.870 --> 01:01:39.796
[SPEAKER_01]: They were worried that you wouldn't be as meticulous as you have been.

01:01:39.876 --> 01:01:45.444
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that does enter into it that you were very thoughtful, but not everybody is.

01:01:45.484 --> 01:01:48.248
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're nice to be thoughtful.

01:01:48.515 --> 01:01:49.256
[SPEAKER_03]: Yep.

01:01:49.336 --> 01:01:50.077
[SPEAKER_03]: That's very true.

01:01:50.217 --> 01:01:59.570
[SPEAKER_03]: And like what we found with a lot of progressive agencies is that they want their information out any way they can get it to their residents.

01:01:59.930 --> 01:02:00.912
[SPEAKER_03]: How does it matter?

01:02:01.072 --> 01:02:02.173
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all about the why.

01:02:02.334 --> 01:02:06.239
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now we have such deep market penetration in certain areas.

01:02:06.920 --> 01:02:09.443
[SPEAKER_03]: Many emergency managers, sheriffs,

01:02:09.423 --> 01:02:13.369
[SPEAKER_03]: chiefs are giving us information as fast as they can.

01:02:13.389 --> 01:02:25.527
[SPEAKER_03]: We have a 24-7 hotline where they can reach us, email us, text us, we get phone calls from the fire line from information officers who know that their community is listening to watch duty.

01:02:25.587 --> 01:02:28.471
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we're happy to put that information out.

01:02:28.491 --> 01:02:29.272
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what we do.

01:02:29.392 --> 01:02:32.256
[SPEAKER_03]: And so anyway, we can get it is the answer.

01:02:32.397 --> 01:02:33.338
[SPEAKER_03]: And so

01:02:33.318 --> 01:02:39.485
[SPEAKER_03]: Even in watch duty, you know, we are deemed on official very often, find that that can and can't be true.

01:02:39.525 --> 01:02:43.990
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, it's not there here nor there, but the information that's given to it is official.

01:02:44.450 --> 01:02:57.705
[SPEAKER_03]: It is from incident commander, it is from their PIOs, it's from their own Facebook pages, it's from Nick Sol and other products, we're just regarding aggregating all the data that's put out there from official sources.

01:02:57.685 --> 01:03:03.075
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we're just there to be a force multiplier and get more this information out in the world.

01:03:03.235 --> 01:03:11.070
[SPEAKER_03]: And many people in emergency management are figuring that out and are using us as a service, which we are.

01:03:11.130 --> 01:03:13.635
[SPEAKER_03]: We are there to be of a service to them and the community.

01:03:13.615 --> 01:03:41.563
[SPEAKER_01]: That is almost a great way to end, but I do want you to just talk a little bit about your decision to go with a non-profit because there's so many people rushing into this space and I got cranky with somebody on LinkedIn yesterday who was like using the wrong data, the wrong measurement, fear, fear, fear is higher me, Tito, and I haven't even looked, I know she's responded,

01:03:41.543 --> 01:03:55.063
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just all about the opportunity to actually profit from this, but can you talk about your decision because I use it often as an example when people are coming to me because they want my opinion on this new product or something like that.

01:03:55.212 --> 01:04:02.284
[SPEAKER_03]: Running a non-profit is definitely not for the faint of heart and trying to really like many businesses shouldn't be non-profit.

01:04:02.364 --> 01:04:07.814
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not going to sit here and say like, every one of the fire service needs to run a non-profit.

01:04:08.535 --> 01:04:13.223
[SPEAKER_03]: There are very hard things to do that take a lot of money.

01:04:13.323 --> 01:04:16.849
[SPEAKER_03]: For example, I'm an advisor to a new drone company called Seneca.

01:04:16.829 --> 01:04:24.782
[SPEAKER_03]: Senaga is building very large dormed drones that carry a foam and water.

01:04:24.963 --> 01:04:26.786
[SPEAKER_03]: It takes a lot of money to build hardware.

01:04:26.826 --> 01:04:27.828
[SPEAKER_03]: They have to make money.

01:04:27.868 --> 01:04:35.561
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the beauty is if you look at the larger scale of the market, it is an order of magnitude cheaper than a Black Hawk helicopter.

01:04:35.781 --> 01:04:37.584
[SPEAKER_03]: And look, we need Black Hawk helicopters.

01:04:37.624 --> 01:04:38.466
[SPEAKER_03]: We need tankers.

01:04:38.826 --> 01:04:40.870
[SPEAKER_03]: But we also need other solutions as well.

01:04:40.950 --> 01:04:42.212
[SPEAKER_03]: And so,

01:04:42.580 --> 01:04:46.029
[SPEAKER_03]: being an entrepreneur, I look at the tools in my toolbox.

01:04:46.149 --> 01:04:47.272
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it this code?

01:04:47.292 --> 01:04:48.054
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it that code?

01:04:48.094 --> 01:04:48.977
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it on this server?

01:04:49.117 --> 01:04:49.799
[SPEAKER_03]: That server?

01:04:49.879 --> 01:04:51.604
[SPEAKER_03]: And how do I build this stuff?

01:04:51.624 --> 01:04:55.534
[SPEAKER_03]: And so the nonprofit is just another tool or another lever to pull.

01:04:55.895 --> 01:04:58.682
[SPEAKER_03]: And early on, I decided that

01:04:58.662 --> 01:05:02.247
[SPEAKER_03]: emergency information should not be profited upon.

01:05:02.828 --> 01:05:05.271
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that with Senna Kuzdoing, they have to do.

01:05:05.371 --> 01:05:09.397
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that the cameras up on the mount tops, those things are expensive.

01:05:09.457 --> 01:05:13.703
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to negotiate leases with tower providers and it's expensive.

01:05:13.763 --> 01:05:18.029
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they do public private partnerships, which is great, so they do get public money for that.

01:05:18.049 --> 01:05:21.214
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do think that it's not always the answer.

01:05:21.234 --> 01:05:25.800
[SPEAKER_03]: I looked at what I'm doing very specifically and said, man,

01:05:25.780 --> 01:05:36.856
[SPEAKER_03]: How could I profit off of public information that is paid for by tax payers that's coming off of radiotraphic and expect people to pay for that, that just felt immoral and unethical.

01:05:37.317 --> 01:05:41.242
[SPEAKER_03]: So for us, that's what God in principle was.

01:05:41.342 --> 01:05:47.451
[SPEAKER_03]: Now the caveat to this is watch Judy has a paid member service.

01:05:47.667 --> 01:05:48.508
[SPEAKER_03]: all life and safety.

01:05:48.548 --> 01:05:53.734
[SPEAKER_01]: Not profits are not no profit, it's just a different, it's not revenue, not profit.

01:05:53.915 --> 01:05:55.096
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a difference, right?

01:05:55.136 --> 01:06:05.168
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm not getting rich off of this, there are an investor who need to see growth numbers and are trying to get us to do something to go make more money for themselves.

01:06:05.649 --> 01:06:07.811
[SPEAKER_03]: We want to make more money so we can serve more people.

01:06:07.931 --> 01:06:14.299
[SPEAKER_03]: But that money goes back to the employees who are serving our communities.

01:06:14.279 --> 01:06:33.807
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that even took a while to figure out because we're, you know, looked at as a tech company and so it took me a while to get my lawyers and accountants and CPAs and others to understand that like, there are many non-profits that that make revenue, you know, museum being a great example.

01:06:33.787 --> 01:06:41.535
[SPEAKER_03]: hospitals are also non-profit and some of them make billions and so I think they need to be better but at least they're non-profit organization.

01:06:42.096 --> 01:06:51.165
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's not that much different than other non-profits you see out there and so that money is to keep us self-sufficient.

01:06:51.245 --> 01:07:03.118
[SPEAKER_03]: I think last year, 84% of our budget was funded by individuals paying a small amount of money to get extra

01:07:03.352 --> 01:07:09.680
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a line for us that we've decided is that all life and safety features will always be free.

01:07:09.760 --> 01:07:12.744
[SPEAKER_03]: What you mentioned earlier is the helicopters and the tankers.

01:07:13.265 --> 01:07:16.709
[SPEAKER_03]: You have to pay $25 a year to become a member of that cost-sust money.

01:07:16.749 --> 01:07:19.733
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not public information that is owned by the people.

01:07:20.694 --> 01:07:23.097
[SPEAKER_03]: That helps us support our operations.

01:07:23.318 --> 01:07:26.582
[SPEAKER_03]: So in December, rolls around, I'm not worried about next year's budget.

01:07:26.622 --> 01:07:32.329
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to throw a gala event to get a bunch of rich people to help us fund ourselves.

01:07:32.309 --> 01:07:35.072
[SPEAKER_01]: We're part of running a nonprofit, yeah.

01:07:35.092 --> 01:07:35.353
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.

01:07:35.373 --> 01:07:36.754
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we still need donors.

01:07:36.835 --> 01:07:41.080
[SPEAKER_03]: Google that it orders one of our biggest donor and a lot of other philanthropists are giving us capital.

01:07:41.560 --> 01:07:44.664
[SPEAKER_03]: But that capital is for growth, not for operations.

01:07:44.684 --> 01:07:50.091
[SPEAKER_03]: And so our goal is to be able to operate our system efficiently.

01:07:50.151 --> 01:07:54.296
[SPEAKER_03]: If we want to grow, we need to raise more money from philanthropists.

01:07:54.396 --> 01:07:55.137
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.

01:07:55.237 --> 01:07:59.262
[SPEAKER_03]: But we don't want to be reliant on them because

01:07:59.242 --> 01:08:09.788
[SPEAKER_03]: our community is relying on us and we can't go away and so it's important that we're able to support ourselves, take personal accountability for what we're doing, make sure we can't go away.

01:08:09.868 --> 01:08:12.354
[SPEAKER_03]: This has become the fabric of our community.

01:08:12.374 --> 01:08:16.845
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't live here without it and many people tell me that constantly.

01:08:16.825 --> 01:08:22.937
[SPEAKER_03]: They get nervous when they find out that we're going to scale to more more states.

01:08:22.997 --> 01:08:31.252
[SPEAKER_03]: They get nervous that we're going to go into floods because we're going to ruin our platform and they're not going to get the quality of service that they've come to know and love.

01:08:31.312 --> 01:08:35.340
[SPEAKER_03]: And so it's really important that we do grow

01:08:35.540 --> 01:08:42.310
[SPEAKER_03]: tactically, you know, responsibly with the right tactics to make sure that we're there for them, so that we don't change.

01:08:42.330 --> 01:08:46.577
[SPEAKER_03]: But again, back to your question about being an on-profit, he was the right thing to do.

01:08:47.578 --> 01:08:48.520
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why we did it.

01:08:49.080 --> 01:08:50.142
[SPEAKER_03]: We could have made a lot more money.

01:08:50.643 --> 01:08:52.806
[SPEAKER_03]: He could have grown a lot faster, but...

01:08:52.870 --> 01:08:53.451
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care.

01:08:54.252 --> 01:08:55.374
[SPEAKER_03]: We have no problem growing.

01:08:55.394 --> 01:08:59.279
[SPEAKER_03]: We've grown extremely quick for any company let alone a nonprofit.

01:08:59.299 --> 01:09:01.062
[SPEAKER_03]: We've been quadrupling every year.

01:09:01.102 --> 01:09:04.246
[SPEAKER_03]: Last year we double because once he hit big numbers it's hard to quadruple anymore.

01:09:04.887 --> 01:09:12.398
[SPEAKER_03]: We're still growing extremely quickly and our quality of service is still very high and so growth comes second to stability.

01:09:12.378 --> 01:09:21.689
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's one of the things I would just like to see more of in the for-profit world here, you know, in the area of perils or megafires in particular.

01:09:22.149 --> 01:09:36.546
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so much knowledge about wind and rain, so I don't worry as much there, even though I still think about the Texas floods, like what you're talking about constantly and why that was just an unnecessary loss of life and I breaks my heart, but I just

01:09:36.526 --> 01:09:43.696
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I want people just to be a little more thoughtful before they rush into this space and start using the wrong numbers.

01:09:43.976 --> 01:09:49.704
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an entire space of trust when you're talking about people's lives and how they're caring for it.

01:09:49.724 --> 01:09:55.412
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that there's a lot of people who are rushing into this space, but they're not doing their due diligence.

01:09:55.472 --> 01:09:58.997
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a lot of people who are doing their due diligence and then they should be vetted.

01:09:59.057 --> 01:10:02.382
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that there's a whole industry around that vetting them, but I

01:10:02.362 --> 01:10:07.311
[SPEAKER_01]: feel a little frustrated by the people who are not being quite so thoughtful.

01:10:07.571 --> 01:10:18.390
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all I mean, I agree with you because you and I live under a threat of fire, but people have to take swings at problems, and just because I don't like it doesn't mean they shouldn't do it.

01:10:18.431 --> 01:10:21.536
[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, the market will course correct and probably spit them out.

01:10:21.897 --> 01:10:23.239
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's...

01:10:23.219 --> 01:10:24.320
[SPEAKER_03]: but that's entrepreneurship.

01:10:24.340 --> 01:10:36.752
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the world I come from, I come from a for-profit world and people have to take swings, they have to educate a market and as much as I think some of them don't necessarily have what it takes, we all have to try.

01:10:36.832 --> 01:10:39.334
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, I don't know, I'm torn.

01:10:39.735 --> 01:10:41.597
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad that there's more awareness coming.

01:10:41.737 --> 01:10:49.804
[SPEAKER_03]: And frankly, if I look at larger market trends or I look at other industries, it's important for people to educate a market.

01:10:49.865 --> 01:10:52.467
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's use

01:10:52.447 --> 01:10:56.778
[SPEAKER_03]: There are many, many other fire tracking applications in the app store.

01:10:56.798 --> 01:11:00.787
[SPEAKER_03]: There's people on Twitter and Facebook trying to do this themselves.

01:11:01.108 --> 01:11:03.354
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where the idea came from.

01:11:03.574 --> 01:11:04.857
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched all them do it.

01:11:04.938 --> 01:11:06.201
[SPEAKER_03]: I watched all them fail.

01:11:06.481 --> 01:11:08.346
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I showed up.

01:11:08.326 --> 01:11:10.629
[SPEAKER_03]: And then we became what's called the category King.

01:11:10.749 --> 01:11:12.010
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not the category creator.

01:11:12.531 --> 01:11:13.933
[SPEAKER_03]: Other people created the category.

01:11:14.313 --> 01:11:16.756
[SPEAKER_03]: They knew what good looked like and hadn't seen it yet.

01:11:17.196 --> 01:11:20.600
[SPEAKER_03]: And I had the key to making something great.

01:11:20.620 --> 01:11:23.103
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was, I'm built on the backs of giants.

01:11:23.123 --> 01:11:29.891
[SPEAKER_03]: There's many people who tried to form a, many of my role models and icons are now friends of mine who have pushed the world forward.

01:11:29.931 --> 01:11:32.034
[SPEAKER_03]: I am not the first person to do this.

01:11:32.054 --> 01:11:37.540
[SPEAKER_03]: And one of my role models is Ilkay from the UCSD, Wi-FiR, and,

01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:46.490
[SPEAKER_03]: and supercomputer program, who is, in my opinion, one of the original fire-tech people happens to be a woman, which is very rare in this space, who has pushed the world forward.

01:11:47.050 --> 01:12:04.509
[SPEAKER_03]: She did so much work for 15 years, pushing the boulder up the hill, and so people have to try and, unfortunately, fail, and then other people who might have the key will come in and see it and be able to one that actually make that a reality.

01:12:04.589 --> 01:12:05.670
[SPEAKER_03]: So,

01:12:05.650 --> 01:12:11.622
[SPEAKER_03]: I hear you, but I also know that we have to toil, that's what humans do, we have to find you.

01:12:11.883 --> 01:12:12.945
[SPEAKER_03]: Rob is we have to push.

01:12:13.366 --> 01:12:17.775
[SPEAKER_03]: And the bad actors do cause noise in the industry, I do what them constantly.

01:12:17.795 --> 01:12:26.713
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I have competitors, well, they think they're competitors who are going to go take this from us, and I think that's hilarious because we do this for free.

01:12:26.693 --> 01:12:30.018
[SPEAKER_03]: So good luck to those folks, but now this is the opportunity.

01:12:30.398 --> 01:12:46.881
[SPEAKER_03]: There's an oh I see what watch duty did Now I'm gonna try and upseat them and we've seen this in many other markets when someone goes and builds a market It becomes the category king and then all the ankle bite or show up and try and take them out I wish they'd spend their time on another problem because I think this problem.

01:12:46.901 --> 01:12:53.089
[SPEAKER_03]: I shouldn't say it's solved it's getting to the point where it's pretty well understood We've done a great job of what we've done

01:12:53.069 --> 01:12:54.251
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm glad they're trying.

01:12:54.271 --> 01:13:00.883
[SPEAKER_03]: I just wish they would use their efforts to another problem that hasn't fully been solved, not the information dissemination part of it.

01:13:01.003 --> 01:13:03.187
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it's not over here nor there.

01:13:03.227 --> 01:13:05.450
[SPEAKER_01]: Then there's so many problems to solve.

01:13:05.551 --> 01:13:08.756
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we are far, far, far away from where we need to be.

01:13:08.776 --> 01:13:17.912
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want them to be really, really thoughtful about it before they put themselves, I just, I think once you've been through a magnifier, especially four of them,

01:13:17.892 --> 01:13:25.611
[SPEAKER_01]: you and and I've just did with so many communities have just been absolutely devastated so I want entrepreneurs in this space.

01:13:26.092 --> 01:13:27.896
[SPEAKER_01]: I want thoughtful entrepreneurs.

01:13:27.976 --> 01:13:29.199
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all I'm asking for.

01:13:29.400 --> 01:13:31.665
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I want to be with them.

01:13:32.118 --> 01:13:34.080
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want it though, John.

01:13:34.100 --> 01:13:39.405
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I hear you about like accepting reality as how I solve this problem, accepted my fate.

01:13:39.525 --> 01:13:40.626
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew what the market was.

01:13:40.686 --> 01:13:44.429
[SPEAKER_03]: I knew that certain governments didn't want this to happen and I accepted it.

01:13:44.449 --> 01:13:46.811
[SPEAKER_03]: And once I accepted it, then I could change it.

01:13:47.332 --> 01:13:52.757
[SPEAKER_03]: But if I'm sitting here protesting bad entrepreneurs, I'm protesting the fire service.

01:13:52.997 --> 01:13:58.882
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, not the fire service, the top raft doesn't want this to happen, then I'm going to sit there and complain, rather than solve problems.

01:13:58.902 --> 01:13:59.863
[SPEAKER_03]: And so,

01:13:59.843 --> 01:14:04.454
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to accept my fate, and then I'm able to change something about it, but I don't know.

01:14:04.474 --> 01:14:06.298
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't fight the existing reality.

01:14:06.318 --> 01:14:07.019
[SPEAKER_03]: I make a new one.

01:14:07.320 --> 01:14:15.118
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're telling me not to be cranky with people on LinkedIn, who are- Definitely cranky with people on LinkedIn, I think it's hilarious, but-

01:14:15.368 --> 01:14:25.098
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I don't engage too much in that rhetoric on the internet because I'm also taking what I've learned from my past life of product-led growth.

01:14:25.318 --> 01:14:28.922
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is focus all my energy on my efforts on my product.

01:14:28.962 --> 01:14:32.826
[SPEAKER_03]: I take all my anger on my rage and build a better and better and better product.

01:14:32.866 --> 01:14:34.928
[SPEAKER_03]: That is how I can be most productive.

01:14:35.468 --> 01:14:40.093
[SPEAKER_03]: When I put my nose to the grind zone and do something about it, I can't stop bad actors.

01:14:40.073 --> 01:14:41.316
[SPEAKER_03]: from doing bad things.

01:14:41.576 --> 01:14:47.508
[SPEAKER_03]: They're going to fail on their own, and they're never going to measure up to our bars long as we keep raising it.

01:14:47.648 --> 01:14:48.971
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's where I spend my effort.

01:14:49.152 --> 01:14:49.673
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear that.

01:14:50.033 --> 01:14:55.264
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I may just be a little bit like,

01:14:55.244 --> 01:15:15.548
[SPEAKER_01]: like I want I need so much so many more great minds in this space and so occasionally it just gets me down when I see not great minds who are not curious who are and I feel like it's just disrespectful but that's from my own experience of writing a non-profit for eight and a half years to fully serve people and we have busted our

01:15:15.528 --> 01:15:36.928
[SPEAKER_01]: our asses to do it in a way that was completely responsible and people's lives depend on it, but that's one of the reasons why I love watch duty so much and I adore you as a human being and why I've really enjoyed watching you grow and having all these conversations with you over the years and I feel like you've been really responsible about it.

01:15:36.908 --> 01:15:40.634
[SPEAKER_01]: and that you can grow like you can have a huge impact in this world.

01:15:40.654 --> 01:15:41.996
[SPEAKER_01]: You can make our lives better.

01:15:42.057 --> 01:15:45.663
[SPEAKER_01]: Overall, and if people make money along the way, I honestly do not care.

01:15:45.763 --> 01:15:50.471
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want them to at least have least understand basic numbers.

01:15:50.931 --> 01:15:51.913
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that.

01:15:52.248 --> 01:15:53.770
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll figure it out if they won't.

01:15:53.790 --> 01:15:54.952
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, look, I don't disagree with you.

01:15:55.152 --> 01:16:03.863
[SPEAKER_03]: And I love watching what you've done as well, and it's been amazing to see you, and all these different stages with different governors and politicians and helping them shape policy.

01:16:03.943 --> 01:16:07.588
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're gonna win winning of the weird way to look at this.

01:16:07.648 --> 01:16:14.857
[SPEAKER_03]: But you're gonna be the best, and what you do by continuing to do that work and doing the work.

01:16:14.938 --> 01:16:15.999
[SPEAKER_03]: Other people aren't gonna do.

01:16:16.039 --> 01:16:22.187
[SPEAKER_03]: They think they can throw AI at a human problem and it's gonna go get solved

01:16:22.167 --> 01:16:35.410
[SPEAKER_03]: Technology do sure is I've just been around long enough and I've seen enough of this through other different markets I've been in and I just accept the human behavior and how it's gonna be and I know that they won't be here very long I'll be here longer than them.

01:16:35.490 --> 01:16:42.943
[SPEAKER_03]: They can come and go and maybe they help educate a market Maybe they do have an impact so there's so many examples in history

01:16:42.923 --> 01:16:47.438
[SPEAKER_03]: of people who began the journey and they couldn't finish it, but someone else does.

01:16:47.498 --> 01:16:53.237
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they do provide value indirectly, is what I remind myself.

01:16:53.352 --> 01:16:53.693
[SPEAKER_00]: fair.

01:16:54.233 --> 01:16:56.718
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll take it, especially today.

01:16:57.098 --> 01:16:59.563
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like it, but I can't stop it.

01:16:59.863 --> 01:17:02.307
[SPEAKER_03]: So maybe I can use it.

01:17:03.028 --> 01:17:07.195
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's probably the Catholic high school teacher in me, though, who's like, bad.

01:17:07.636 --> 01:17:08.638
[SPEAKER_01]: No, be better.

01:17:08.698 --> 01:17:10.561
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a D. You need a day.

01:17:10.922 --> 01:17:12.144
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's move forward together.

01:17:12.224 --> 01:17:16.391
[SPEAKER_01]: I could also because I really want good people, more good people in this space.

01:17:16.411 --> 01:17:18.735
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a lot of good people in this space, but I

01:17:18.715 --> 01:17:40.285
[SPEAKER_01]: I really want to no longer be needed in that way, you know, even if it takes the rest of my life, that's fine, but then after that too, there's always going to be an after, we're just going to take up space for a while, but the air of megafires will go on and on and on until we get much, much better at dealing with the reality.

01:17:40.265 --> 01:18:04.146
[SPEAKER_01]: we can't change right now like the the our age factor we can't do anything about that but we can do is change our response to it and not just try to profit like purely profit off of the fear so yeah I mean look that's more great people showing up which I'm really I'm impressed at it and I've been doing this for five years now and it was definitely much quieter when I got here um

01:18:04.126 --> 01:18:27.974
[SPEAKER_03]: And there are more people, I advise about three different companies right now that I normally wouldn't, but there are people who are extraordinarily tenacious, they actually come from usually a for-profit world and now they're spending their time on the mutual aid response problem that I'm very proud to support because I know they're taking a hard swing, they know what it takes, they're not coming in with naive eyes and they're doing the right thing.

01:18:27.994 --> 01:18:30.117
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I am excited about the

01:18:30.097 --> 01:18:36.808
[SPEAKER_03]: the future with more fire technology air quotes showing up to be of service.

01:18:36.828 --> 01:18:38.892
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think it's going to get better, frankly.

01:18:39.954 --> 01:18:43.439
[SPEAKER_03]: The incumbents are actually the biggest problem that I come up against.

01:18:43.680 --> 01:18:45.042
[SPEAKER_03]: You're talking about something different.

01:18:45.162 --> 01:18:47.987
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm dealing with people who

01:18:47.967 --> 01:19:13.485
[SPEAKER_03]: think that they owned something and it was theirs to solve and then they didn't solve it and then when we do they get jealous and angry and then they try and do everything they can to stop us and so that's actually the biggest problem is the status quo was trying to protect itself and that is the hardest for me to swallow and that's my biggest gripe it's actually not the new people it's it's the ones you were here being obstructionist

01:19:14.073 --> 01:19:16.696
[SPEAKER_01]: I can feel that I've had that too.

01:19:17.257 --> 01:19:25.748
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're coming around now, but yeah, I didn't know I was living rent free in this many people's head who's been doing this for 20 years, you know, until recently.

01:19:25.768 --> 01:19:27.150
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, well, why do you care?

01:19:27.170 --> 01:19:29.593
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, if I'm doing the right thing, why do you care?

01:19:29.613 --> 01:19:36.722
[SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I'm John, is there anything that I should have asked you today that I haven't asked you?

01:19:36.782 --> 01:19:39.405
[SPEAKER_01]: Or anything you want to make sure that people know?

01:19:39.503 --> 01:19:46.650
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think this is kind of a, maybe a different stand about non-profits, but non-profits are also competitive, right?

01:19:46.990 --> 01:19:48.772
[SPEAKER_03]: They compete with each other.

01:19:48.792 --> 01:19:59.002
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's this misnomer of people who've never done it, but many non-profits want to be the one to solve the problem, because then they're the ones who get the recognition, get the grants, and get the money.

01:19:59.082 --> 01:20:02.125
[SPEAKER_03]: And so unfortunately, like capitalism is everywhere.

01:20:02.226 --> 01:20:04.768
[SPEAKER_03]: And I see non-profits, I get,

01:20:05.660 --> 01:20:13.235
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I get in fights with for-profits, I shouldn't say fights because we just let them just tire themselves out, but like, they don't care for a non-profit.

01:20:13.516 --> 01:20:15.680
[SPEAKER_03]: We're taking their profit, right?

01:20:15.801 --> 01:20:17.143
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they hate it, too.

01:20:17.665 --> 01:20:21.773
[SPEAKER_03]: Other non-profits are, again, competing for the same dollar and it's cutthroat.

01:20:21.853 --> 01:20:23.036
[SPEAKER_03]: But every industry is like this.

01:20:23.577 --> 01:20:26.723
[SPEAKER_03]: If you look at the aid industry, you know, look at,

01:20:27.192 --> 01:20:47.682
[SPEAKER_03]: uh... like red cross and rules and tradition like don't always get along with each other because they're all trying to save the same problem and then you have more that show up like barbecues without borders and all these people who are also trying to do the same thing and raise the money because they also want to feed people during events and so hits a bummer that that's the reality that that we get into i'm glad that

01:20:47.662 --> 01:21:02.178
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, our community members end users quote unquote, you know, from Silicon Valley terms where I come from, hard-getting service, but back behind the scenes, they are at odds with each other, which doesn't make any sense, because if you're a survivor, you don't care, right?

01:21:02.258 --> 01:21:17.314
[SPEAKER_03]: I want service, I want help, and so there's this, again, misnome that people have to understand that, like, it's not devoid of capital, it's not devoid of ego and wants

01:21:17.834 --> 01:21:27.830
[SPEAKER_01]: It's incredibly hard, especially for those people who don't know, like in the emergency response space for a non-profits, it is absolutely cut-throat in many, many ways, like for who's going to show up.

01:21:28.471 --> 01:21:43.234
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are people that are doing great work and there are groups who are not, but they're really good at collateral and they're really good at, you know, putting it out on social media and that's where their strength is and it's, I don't

01:21:43.214 --> 01:21:52.568
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're doing some kind of service on the ground, fine, whatever, but doing their due diligence behind the scenes, it's just, it's, it's a very strange.

01:21:52.629 --> 01:22:02.243
[SPEAKER_01]: This is my first nonprofit I've ever run and I remember when I was in grad school, they kept giving us leadership classes on nonprofits and I'd be like doodling, I'm never going to do that.

01:22:02.263 --> 01:22:03.085
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do that.

01:22:03.145 --> 01:22:04.547
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds terrible.

01:22:04.527 --> 01:22:20.328
[SPEAKER_01]: And also that the, you know, like there is a study from the Center for Effective Philanthropy in like 2022, of course, it's a bit of a different world now that said that only 2% of all philanthropy went to any issue having to do with climate change, or which means natural disasters in this way.

01:22:20.869 --> 01:22:25.675
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, and when you when asked anonymously, they said, well, it's just too hard.

01:22:25.655 --> 01:22:27.698
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, but it's here anyway.

01:22:27.718 --> 01:22:30.382
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard that asked the people you think you're really effective.

01:22:30.843 --> 01:22:44.423
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that I noticed in our fires and I have operated this way since literally the day of the day our fires started in October 8th of 2017 is making sure that we collaborated.

01:22:44.403 --> 01:22:46.108
[SPEAKER_01]: and that we all work together.

01:22:46.288 --> 01:22:54.229
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that that's very polyana, but that is actually how we got through, especially here in Sonoma Valley, because we would not have been able to feed in service.

01:22:54.550 --> 01:22:59.644
[SPEAKER_01]: We did not have the capacity to do the entire job if one of us was trying to be the hero of the Savior.

01:22:59.624 --> 01:23:02.607
[SPEAKER_01]: None of that actually works in any of this space at all.

01:23:03.168 --> 01:23:11.698
[SPEAKER_01]: So our philosophy mine has been resolutely, I will always amplify other nonprofits that are filling a niche or doing a really good job.

01:23:12.038 --> 01:23:21.829
[SPEAKER_01]: And I never stress or even think about the money on the other side of it, which probably makes me like not a great business woman, but a good human being, which I'd rather be first in the space all the time.

01:23:21.990 --> 01:23:22.290
[SPEAKER_01]: So.

01:23:22.270 --> 01:23:40.515
[SPEAKER_03]: Well appreciate what you've done and I know our community does too and unfortunately we're not going anywhere, this is a growing need and I think that there's something interesting about this concept of climate change, it's a tough one for people to swallow and I work with a lot of people left right in center and

01:23:40.495 --> 01:23:46.569
[SPEAKER_03]: Even the far right folks who don't believe in climate change, they know the climate is changing.

01:23:46.669 --> 01:23:47.511
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask a firefighter.

01:23:47.591 --> 01:23:52.202
[SPEAKER_03]: They won't tell you why necessarily, but they know fires are getting worse and worse and worse.

01:23:52.262 --> 01:23:57.694
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what's important for folks like me today is I don't care why it's happening.

01:23:57.674 --> 01:23:58.295
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care.

01:23:58.795 --> 01:24:06.764
[SPEAKER_03]: Arsonist lighting this fire, if it was a power company, like SE and the heat and fire, it doesn't, I don't know me, I'm in response.

01:24:06.784 --> 01:24:10.788
[SPEAKER_03]: And so lecturing people is also not an answer, right?

01:24:10.868 --> 01:24:15.774
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel that it's my job to educate people as to why this is happening.

01:24:15.874 --> 01:24:18.156
[SPEAKER_03]: We're getting more arsonist than we ever have before.

01:24:18.577 --> 01:24:19.337
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is that happening?

01:24:19.357 --> 01:24:20.138
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that mental health?

01:24:20.699 --> 01:24:22.120
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it technology?

01:24:22.140 --> 01:24:22.841
[SPEAKER_03]: Is it TikTok?

01:24:22.861 --> 01:24:23.622
[SPEAKER_03]: Is there an illness?

01:24:23.762 --> 01:24:25.504
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it is, but like,

01:24:25.484 --> 01:24:26.525
[SPEAKER_03]: that's not my lane.

01:24:26.806 --> 01:24:30.510
[SPEAKER_03]: My lane is to be there to respond to these incidents when they happen.

01:24:30.550 --> 01:24:32.092
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think it's important.

01:24:32.112 --> 01:24:39.241
[SPEAKER_03]: We also focus on what we can do and not focus on lecturing people about something they really can't control.

01:24:39.301 --> 01:24:49.433
[SPEAKER_03]: But what I can control is cutting the bushes down from around my house and escaping differently, hardening my home, having a go bag, a plan, and all these things like this.

01:24:49.413 --> 01:24:52.178
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are things that you can take personal accountability for.

01:24:52.699 --> 01:24:58.791
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think it's important that we all act in some sort of solidarity, no matter what you believe, is it based on lasers?

01:24:59.312 --> 01:25:00.915
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really care why it's happening.

01:25:01.998 --> 01:25:02.979
[SPEAKER_03]: But ultimately it is.

01:25:03.280 --> 01:25:04.823
[SPEAKER_03]: And so what do we do about it?

01:25:04.803 --> 01:25:05.684
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree.

01:25:05.805 --> 01:25:21.789
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that one of the things we're trying to pierce all the time is like you can't just have the two extremes of giving everyone a stomach ache and making them terrified of what's actually happening or pretending it's completely not happening.

01:25:21.809 --> 01:25:25.815
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like having shots of tequila before a noon and driving a school bus.

01:25:25.795 --> 01:25:33.329
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, both are totally ineffective, and so let's just deal with the reality of what's going on, and I just don't care who voted for it.

01:25:33.349 --> 01:25:34.411
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't care at all.

01:25:34.451 --> 01:25:36.074
[SPEAKER_01]: We walk into a community downcare.

01:25:36.094 --> 01:25:37.196
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't matter to me.

01:25:37.256 --> 01:25:42.606
[SPEAKER_01]: I do have to drive a truck that's the only difference that that's the only thing I've ever changed about my work.

01:25:42.586 --> 01:26:05.891
[SPEAKER_01]: So, John, what I'd like to do is to check in with you periodically, and as things shift and as you grow, because I love how dynamic you are and that you weren't just content in your, and the people who they work with to are not just content with, you know, keeping it this, you know, small and safe, but instead meeting the moment.

01:26:06.031 --> 01:26:10.196
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's, we need more people like you, and I appreciate you a lot, and proud to call you a friend.

01:26:10.236 --> 01:26:10.836
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.

01:26:10.856 --> 01:26:11.637
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate that.

01:26:11.657 --> 01:26:12.458
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye, Gacha.

01:26:12.742 --> 01:26:24.490
[SPEAKER_01]: okay all right thank you so much this is the how to disaster broadcast and we've been with john mills co founder and CEO of watch duty if you haven't downloaded it do it today thank you